Is horizontal position really better?

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Statistics start with one data point. But conclusions should not.
You know how theories are disproven, right?

You seem to present Asians as disproportionately poorer divers. Your evidence, like mine, is anecdotal, and not statistically significant. This is why I generally ignore your comments as you are so often disingenuous when you really should know better given your scientific background. Feel free to respond, as I won't for the sake of the mods.
 
That's hardly progress.
As of now, three relatively small agencies require horizontal trim and no silting for their students in OW: GUE, NASE, and RAID. They require it not for 60 or 90 seconds, but for the entire dive. NASE requires that you be able to stop, turn and start again without changing depth and not using your hands. I never taught for the other two agencies, so I can't comment on them.

I have seen cultural change amongst divers here on SB as well as in the field. Uncle Pug and Roark were the lone sirens calling out the "roto-tillers" as UP called them. It was kind of tiring. By the time I hit my NAUI ITC (Instructor Training Class) I was as neutral as it got which led to utter humiliation at times. We were doing final presentations in King Spring, and the silt on the bottom was EPIC. But I was taught to teach my students on their knees in the pool as a control technique. If you wanted a five you made sure they were planted on the bottom. Not being an ounce overweighted, I couldn't plant myself. Suffice it to say, that the silt didn't stay on the bottom. I was allowed a do-over in an even siltier lake, fortunately with an elevated platform. During the debriefing, the ITs argued that there was really no requirement to kneel, so I could "theoretically" teach off the bottom. The Course Director but kibosh on that pretty quick. Needless to say, I always went in at least five pounds heavier than I needed after that. I did the same to my students so I could plant them on the bottom as well. I didn't like it then, and it was the impetus for me to figure out how to get off the bottom and get them neutral. It's nice to see that some of the harshest critics from my early days of trial and error, now advocate for teaching off of the knees.

The King Spring debacle will almost always be one of the lowest of lows in my teaching career. Luckily, nothing takes the sour taste of shame and humiliation out your mouth like Be-Bop-a-Re-Bop, Rhubarb Pie. (I played this a lot during that ITC)

 
@The Chairman

When I see videos like this
I'm not especially optimistic that change is happening.

Given that it took PADI 9 years from the publishing of John's article and changes being made for scoring in IEs, I'm not optimistic.

GUE will always be a small organization. Logistically, it would be hard to provide their level of quality control if they were to be even 1/10th the size of PADI.

I know you have been teaching through NASE for years and I like what you describe. I put more hope in RAID due to my perception of greater exposure.

I greatly appreciate them putting their content online for all to see. Training materials isn't like stealth technology. Hardly a secret. I especially like how they provided an instructor guide that includes a good method for weighting and if I remember correctly, it included discussion on weight distribution. I've never seen that addressed in my current and past agencies.

So as I've said many times, I hope they continue to grow by both new business and also crossing instructors and dive centers over.
 
Horizontal trim and static control can be taught to new divers in a controlled environment like a pool and it does keep them off the bottom.Like fledglings new divers are awkward and they crash and land. But they should also learn agility and be able to move smoothly at speed around an object or structure. There's nothing as graceful as a diver with agility. But that takes time spent in the water and you need to come out of the stiff horizontal posture. There's a place for both.
 
Everybody in the western world agrees!!! LOL.
I had said it many times most divers I met in SE Asia were from outside Asia. And some of them should not be allowed to dive unless it is in his own swimming pool.
The best scuba divers in the world are from the south of Sahara (South Africa excluded). You will never see one kicking silt or destroying coral for a very good reason :cool:
 
The best scuba divers in the world are from the south of Sahara (South Africa excluded). You will never see one kicking silt or destroying coral for a very good reason :cool:
Here we go again!
BEST!
It does not matter whether it is a joke or not.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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