Is horizontal position really better?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Patience is essential.

Pete,

That is an understatement. Knowing human nature and the tendency of larger groups of people to aspire to mediocrity I am not hopeful.

While some may cite IDCs that do create instructors trained in neutral buoyancy and trim (please I hope this is included), there's still a lot of mediocrity being churned out.

I believe it was Peter Guy who cited a statistic that instructors last on average 18 months. I cannot verify this but let's assume this is correct as Peter's a sharp guy. For those of us on the tail of the curve, I can theorize as to what the distribution for time spent being an instructor may be, but I don't have sufficient data . I will say that the implication isn't positive.

That video is incredibly painful to watch. Its like hearing someone scratch a chalkboard.

And that is a platinum course director who sometimes posts his videos here on SB.

 

[The Chairman]

there's still a lot of mediocrity being churned out.

It's my ever so humble opinion that today's new instructors are more on track with trim and buoyancy than when I first became one. Are they perfect? Some are close. If they are conscientious instructors, their next class will always be their best. They'll be inspired by what is written here and might try it out. It's genuinely habit-forming. Almost twenty years ago I was called a liar for suggesting I taught with no kneeling, by people who now promote the practice. New dogs learn new tricks... old dogs, not so much. Some of us even retire.

 

[sourdough]

I'm green so don't have dogma yet, and from a newbie perspective I think it's fairly straightforward.

If you're on/near a surface get horizontal and stop kicking up sand/silt or even worse kicking life on the bottom, please for the love of visibility.

Being horizontal & neutral is easiest to control your position in the water column because you're not kicking downward, therefore it's a fine position for maintaining a depth with your buddy, like in a deco or safety stop.

That's it. Like a baby learning to walk it takes time to find balance, trim, and buoyancy underwater so be gracious with each other as we learn & train, and take time so when you're swimming near the bottom you're not decreasing visibility for everyone else, or squishing corals.

Kneeling on the bottom of anything except a pool though..... you dirty dirty sinners...

and please tell your students to stop waving their hands around like we're out of air at a rave.

 

[sourdough]

Isn't it wild that kneeling is still a thing in advanced classes?



Neutral buoyancy & trim is what OW certification should prioritize, being able to hold a hover position several feet off ground should be like the first thing we learn, and you don't get certified without that skillset.

Then once you can do that then we leave the pool and go to a live environment where there is no kneeling allowed by penalty of finger wags.

Then we can learn other things like donning/doffing gear underwater, mask, regulator drills, gas sharing etc. But not until you can maintain buoyancy in trim, and avoid kicking the bottom.

This is from my very recent new diver experience, I was not confident/comfortable underwater until I learned how to control my buoyancy in a neutral position underwater, which I didn't get after OW certification plus a refresher. It wasn't until a perfect buoyancy class followed by fundies that I finally felt competent.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It's my ever so humble opinion that today's new instructors are more on track with trim and buoyancy than when I first became one. Are they perfect? Some are close. If they are conscientious instructors, their next class will always be their best. They'll be inspired by what is written here and might try it out. It's genuinely habit-forming. Almost twenty years ago I was called a liar for suggesting I taught with no kneeling, by people who now promote the practice. New dogs learn new tricks... old dogs, not so much. Some of us even retire.

Sure, the situation is improving, but it is glacially slow. The numbers on their knees is still significant. I'd be willing to wager $100 that it is the majority.

That's a big "if" by the way. I doubt they'll ever come to scubaboard though.

Isn't it wild that kneeling is still a thing in advanced classes?

That was painful to watch

Neutral buoyancy & trim is what OW certification should prioritize, being able to hold a hover position several feet off ground should be like the first thing we learn, and you don't get certified without that skillset.

It is how many of us start confined water and keep going. I actually start confined water with skin diving skills to ease the transition of gear and comfort. Doing so made a big difference as the steps were made smaller.

Then once you can do that then we leave the pool and go to a live environment where there is no kneeling allowed by penalty of finger wags.

Then we can learn other things like donning/doffing gear underwater, mask, regulator drills, gas sharing etc. But not until you can maintain buoyancy in trim, and avoid kicking the bottom.

I once assisted a class where everyone was put on their knees. Mind you, it was a small pool. But nevertheless, the instructor asked me to demonstrated underwater scuba kit removal and replacement, which I did neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

And the rest of the class did their best to duplicate what they saw. They got neutral and did their best to remain neutral while performing the skill. Now this really wasn't fair to have them do this when they had been on their knees pretty much the whole time, but honestly I was proud of them for doing their best and working through it. Had they been properly weighted and trained neutrally buoyant and trimmed, they would have had a far easier time.

 

[sourdough]

I once assisted a class where everyone was put on their knees. Mind you, it was a small pool. But nevertheless, the instructor asked me to demonstrated underwater scuba kit removal and replacement, which I did neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

And the rest of the class did their best to duplicate what they saw. They got neutral and did their best to remain neutral while performing the skill. Now this really wasn't fair to have them do this when they had been on their knees pretty much the whole time, but honestly I was proud of them for doing their best and working through it. Had they been properly weighted and trained neutrally buoyant and trimmed, they would have had a far easier time.

Good on them, I think students are willing, and capable, but for whatever reason the two OW classes I took were not equipping us to be neutrally buoyant divers.

When we went for our first OW environment training, one of the couples was up & down several times from shallow 10-20 ft depths in uncontrolled ascents because they were just unprepared. The pool work was rushed, covered too many topics, and it was clear to me that everyone would be better off spending a day just learning/practicing to control neutral buoyancy instead of a rush through the bullet points the instructor had.

After my OW cert I didn't dive because I just didn't feel capable without supervision, and even after a refresher I didn't feel like I was practiced enough on how to dive safely without an instructor nearby. It wasn't just me, it was the same for others.

 

[Adobo]

Isn't it wild that kneeling is still a thing in advanced classes?



Neutral buoyancy & trim is what OW certification should prioritize, being able to hold a hover position several feet off ground should be like the first thing we learn, and you don't get certified without that skillset.

Then once you can do that then we leave the pool and go to a live environment where there is no kneeling allowed by penalty of finger wags.

Then we can learn other things like donning/doffing gear underwater, mask, regulator drills, gas sharing etc. But not until you can maintain buoyancy in trim, and avoid kicking the bottom.

This is from my very recent new diver experience, I was not confident/comfortable underwater until I learned how to control my buoyancy in a neutral position underwater, which I didn't get after OW certification plus a refresher. It wasn't until a perfect buoyancy class followed by fundies that I finally felt competent.

"Advanced" is a misnomer. Many of these "skills" really are just part of basic scuba diving. If anything, maybe the class should be called open water part 2.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Good on them, I think students are willing, and capable, but for whatever reason the two OW classes I took were not equipping us to be neutrally buoyant divers.

Students will shoot for the bar they are given. They will assume it is normal. If the bar is low, that's what they will shoot for and stop. If it is high, the same. I think many instructors underestimate the desire of students to do well.

When we went for our first OW environment training, one of the couples was up & down several times from shallow 10-20 ft depths in uncontrolled ascents because they were just unprepared. The pool work was rushed, covered too many topics, and it was clear to me that everyone would be better off spending a day just learning/practicing to control neutral buoyancy instead of a rush through the bullet points the instructor had.

Likely due to overweighting. None of us have great awareness when we start out. We often don't realize when we change depth. So that extra wing displacement that is for the excess weight results in even great changes in buoyancy force when we go up or down. And that often results in corking and cratering. It isn't their fault, but the instructors. It was certainly my fault when I started teaching, as on the knees was how I learned to teach. As soon as I followed the examples of others and experimented with proper weighting, neutral buoyancy, and trim, the results I achieved were dramatically different.

And this isn't brain surgery. It isn't hard. But you can't handicap students with excess weight and improperly distributed weight and expect good results.

After my OW cert I didn't dive because I just didn't feel capable without supervision, and even after a refresher I didn't feel like I was practiced enough on how to dive safely without an instructor nearby. It wasn't just me, it was the same for others.

That is unfortunately quite common. That was one reason why I wrote that ridiculous dive planning document that you can find in the links in my signature. I say ridiculous as it was never intended to be used often. It was only meant to be used to establish confidence in divers and not need to have their hands held (a violation of WRSTC guidelines)

"Advanced" is a misnomer. Many of these "skills" really are just part of basic scuba diving. If anything, maybe the class should be called open water part 2.

Oh please, not this issue again. While you are 100% right, marketing rules here. This is after all, a business and that means profits before results/safety. If the industry clamped down on instructor quality, it would hemorrhage from the loss of dive pro dues. @boulderjohn 's article on moving to NB was over a decade ago, and the changes in that direction have been miniscule and only occurring recently. While I do believe the industry will get there, I think it will still take a couple decades.

 

[The Chairman]

I'd be willing to wager $100 that it is the majority.

That's a sucker's bet.

Being horizontal & neutral is easiest to control your position in the water column because you're not kicking downward,

Trim causes the majority of your thrust to go rearward. HOWEVER, in the case of flutter kicking, there's a certain amount of thrust straight up and straight down. You have to learn a different kick (Shuffle Flutter or Frog), or stay well away from the bottom... where a lot of interesting critters hang out. I can't tell how many times I've called divers back to see a huge moray under a ledge they missed because they couldn't get close to the bottom without silting it all out.

 

[sourdough]

"Advanced" is a misnomer. Many of these "skills" really are just part of basic scuba diving. If anything, maybe the class should be called open water part 2.

. Open Water II Attack of the Clones