Is horizontal position really better?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To a complete stranger? Not a chance.
There is usually no debriefing after the dive unless something has gone wrong. For some divers and myself that could be the last dive of the trip.
I have been asked on several occasions by the fellow divers of my set up(BP/W with long hose) in rec dive.
And some of my insta-buddy did not like the idea of primary donation.

oh definitely not a stranger, but a dive buddy, someone you know.
Giving advice on any improvements is typically not well received which is why I just keep my mouth shut. Though I do sometimes ask others about my trim. "Did I break at the waist?" "What angle was my body?" That's about it.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Recreational divers, in my opinion, should not be diving solo anyway. Especially not on night dives.

Even when diving with buddies we are really diving solo. Our dive buddies have other things to look at and there may be many minutes before they look to see what their dive buddy is doing. It only takes a second to become unconscious and drown. Nobody will hear that.

I like to be the last diver in a group when diving with instabuddies. Most often people never bother to look back and check to see where I am which suits me just fine. I can see where they are easily. My dive partners I take vacations with we tend to have situational awareness
but do not dive so close together being separate by several meters at same depth is common.

No difference in diving solo day or night imho same requirements for redundancy.

Recreational divers like any other diver ( after all those doing technical dives also dive for the fun of it so they too are recreational divers ) are responsible to themselves first and others second.

 

[Adobo]

Even when diving with buddies we are really diving solo. Our dive buddies have other things to look at and there may be many minutes before they look to see what their dive buddy is doing. It only takes a second to become unconscious and drown. Nobody will hear that.

I like to be the last diver in a group when diving with instabuddies. Most often people never bother to look back and check to see where I am which suits me just fine. I can see where they are easily. My dive partners I take vacations with we tend to have situational awareness
but do not dive so close together being separate by several meters at same depth is common.

No difference in diving solo day or night imho same requirements for redundancy.

Recreational divers like any other diver ( after all those doing technical dives also dive for the fun of it so they too are recreational divers ) are responsible to themselves first and others second.

We have a philosophical difference as it relates to buddies. Let's leave it at that.

As it relates to recreational dives vs. technical dives, you are playing games of semantics. We all know what it means when a person is referring to a recreational dive and how it is differentiated from a technical dive or a cave dive.

Note: For those who don't know what I am referring to, recreational dives are ones where you purposefully plan the dive so as to not incur "mandatory" decompression. Further, the dive may be aborted at any time and the diver may directly ascend to the surface. This are the limits of you were taught during open water certifcation.

 

[Blackcrusader]

We have a philosophical difference as it relates to buddies. Let's leave it at that.

As it relates to recreational dives vs. technical dives, you are playing games of semantics. We all know what it means when a person is referring to a recreational dive and how it is differentiated from a technical dive or a cave dive. For those who don't know what I am referring to, recreational dives are ones where you purposefully plan the dive so as to not incur "mandatory" decompression. Further, the dive may be aborted at any time and the diver may directly ascend to the surface.

Deco dives have always been part of recreational diving imho. I started that way with BSAC in the mid 80's. Deco planned dives was just a normal part of diving. Nothing technical about it really and still taught today. We didn't have nitrox back in the 80's so deco dives were just air dives with long deco stops. Things have moved on and deco nitrox dives are also easy to manage. However if you believe that recreational only applies to NDL dives that's fine by me.

 

[Adobo]

Deco dives have always been part of recreational diving imho.

That's because you are being disingenuous about the fact that the context I used "recreational diving" is different than the context you are using.

I started that way with BSAC in the mid 80's. Deco planned dives was just a normal part of diving. Nothing technical about it really and still taught today. We didn't have nitrox back in the 80's so deco dives were just air dives with long deco stops. Things have moved on and deco nitrox dives are also easy to manage. However if you believe that recreational only applies to NDL dives that's fine by me.

In case you missed it, since the 80s (or maybe even back then), the larger agencies that issue scuba certifications have differentiated "recreational dives" from dives where divers exceed NDLs and/or go in overhead environments. You can refuse to acknowledge that there is a difference between "recreational dives" and "technical dives" as described by agencies like PADI. That's up to you.

Also, since the 80s, cell phones have become mainstream (they are no longer the size of shoe boxes too), everyone has a PC (no more command line either - every computer has a GUI) and, here is a big one, we don't use 8-track for music anymore.

 

[Blackcrusader]

That's because you are being disingenuous about the fact that the context I used "recreational diving" is different than the context you are using.

That is just a difference of opinion nothing more. Diving is diving. Using 21% or mixed gases is also recreational diving. Deco dives are recreational dives. In the end it matters not whether or not you consider deco dives technical or recreational, it's just diving as is diving solo. Just like some think being horizontal must be done at all times when being in another position might be far more comfortable or for getting a better view of the surroundings. PADI is just one of many agencies. When I would go to Padi centers in the 80's with BSAC deco quals they would be saying deco so dangerous not allowed by Padi. Padi just got into so called technical diving because divers were being certified by other agencies for things it did not teach. It is about the money for certifications they were missing out on. In case you missed it like PADI did, people were doing wreck dives and cave dives and deco dives for fun before Padi would ever admit that type if diving should be allowed. This was mainstream to many agencies a long time before Padi recognized there was money to be made.

Some people think night diving should be classed as technical diving. By the way you will find many divers who would tell you they also consider deco dives as recreational dives.

 

[boulderjohn]

However if you believe that recreational only applies to NDL dives that's fine by me.

That's pretty much how the overwhelming majority of the diving world uses the term today.

This Wikipedia article quotes the definition of technical diving for most of the major agencies covering about 85% of the world's divers today. They are pretty much in agreement.

 

[Adobo]

That is just a difference of opinion nothing more. Diving is diving. Using 21% or mixed gases is also recreational diving. Deco dives are recreational dives. In the end it matters not whether or not you consider deco dives technical or recreational, it's just diving as is diving solo. Just like some think being horizontal must be done at all times when being in another position might be far more comfortable or for getting a better view of the surroundings. PADI is just one of many agencies. When I would go to Padi centers in the 80's with BSAC deco quals they would be saying deco so dangerous not allowed by Padi. Padi just got into so called technical diving because divers were being certified by other agencies for things it did not teach. It is about the money for certifications they were missing out on. In case you missed it like PADI did, people were doing wreck dives and cave dives and deco dives for fun before Padi would ever admit that type if diving should be allowed. This was mainstream to many agencies a long time before Padi recognized there was money to be made.

Some people think night diving should be classed as technical diving. By the way you will find many divers who would tell you they also consider deco dives as recreational dives.

If you want to talk to scuba divers using lingo, definitions from the 80s and have them understand what you are talking about, you'll have to get your time machine working. If you want to talk to divers in modern times, you will need to suck it up and learn the modern lingo.

 

[Blackcrusader]

If you want to talk to scuba divers using lingo, definitions from the 80s and have them understand what you are talking about, you'll have to get your time machine working. If you want to talk to divers in modern times, you will need to suck it up and learn the modern lingo.

That's pretty much how the overwhelming majority of the diving world uses the term today.

This Wikipedia article quotes the definition of technical diving for most of the major agencies covering about 85% of the world's divers today. They are pretty much in agreement.

I'll just do my dive planning and suck up on those gasses that come out of the tanks all the same.

" BSAC varies from many agencies in allowing some staged decompression within recreational diving."
" Nitrox diving and rebreather diving were originally considered technical" but not now for nitrox diving.

So if you are BSAC certified you may have the opinion that deco dives are part of recreational diving is all I have stated.

Funny that in another forum thread before I said I could claim to be a technical diver others came out to claim I was not as I was not a " certified technical diver" so I was a recreational diver lol.

Some have claimed that planning a deco dive on a single tank is dangerous but then others come out and write that they will do single tank "light back gas deco" on their "recreational" dives. None of this affects my position in the water as to being horizontal or not on dives.

 

[MichaelMc]

I do not think the (minutia of the) boundary line between rec and tech has much impact on if horizontal is often the better orientation.