Is horizontal position really better?

[The Chairman]

So, after 24 pages of sometimes intense assertions (gaslighting?) about the horizontal rigidity of some divers, the fact remains that the title of this thread is a Red Herring and an exaggeration of horizontal diving proponents' position.

To whit, it is not a requirement to be horizontal at all times on any dive. However, we do lament the inability of many divers to dive horizontally when they should. Please don't hate us cuz you can't dive like us.

 

[Centrals]

To whit, it is not a requirement to be horizontal at all times on any dive. However, we do lament the inability of many divers to dive horizontally when they should. Please don't hate us cuz you can't dive like us.

Why so many(majority from my experience) divers do not dive horizontally. There must be some logical reasons eg. initial training, lack of time to improve etc.
I do not feel any superior to be able to dive horizontally.
But I hate/resent those who believe it is the only way.
This is 2022 not back to 2000 but same condescending attitude from some divers.

 

[Adobo]

Why so many(majority from my experience) divers do not dive horizontally. There must be some logical reasons eg. initial training, lack of time to improve etc.
I do not feel any superior to be able to dive horizontally.
But I hate/resent those who believe it is the only way.
This is 2022 not back to 2000 but same condescending attitude from some divers.

Well, 2000s is still further along than the 80s, right?

My opinion (admittedly lacking any foundation) is that humans are adapted to be upright. Vertical if you will. This is default position we assume for the entirety of our waking day. Even when we sit, we are upright. We just take the weight of our legs by sitting on a chair.

When we learn to scuba dive, our default approach is the one we are used to - vertical. This is how we look around on land. This is how we stay in one position on land. This is how we complete tasks. This is how we travel. We can walk forwards, backwards and sideways. We can change the direction we are facing (left face, right face and so on). We can even travel / change directions and use our hands to multi task (drink a latte) in this orientation. All vertical.

We bring what we know on land into the water. Having no other data to work with, we assume that what works well on land will work well in the water. We want to be vertical. Yet from a requirement perspective, the vertical orientation fails as a solution in the water. While vertical, you cannot move in 3 dimensions (cannot move forward or backwards). You cannot change the direction you are facing unless you use you hands to scull in which case, whatever you were doing with your hands before, you can no longer do. The in water orientation that allows you to do all the things you can do on land is horizontal. Which is why personally, I think horizontal is the proper default orientation.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Some people!!!!!
You made that up without any references/quotes.

Deco dives are recreational dives for all divers worldwide who have a recreational diving certification which allows for deco dives. Whilst US-based for-profit agencies generally do not release such certifications, many other agencies worldwide release them at their higher training level.
For example, my 3-stars CMAS diving certification sets a max depth of 50m in air with deco also on air.
Here in Europe and UK a lot of divers are certified by these not-commercial agencies. Not all of them reach the highest certification degree. But also divers who get only one-star certification have this concept that deco on back gas is a fully recreational activity, of course requiring proper training, proper equipment, and proper certification.
About numbers. PADI issued around 1 million certifications per year worldwide (before pandemics):

https://www.padi.com/sites/default/files/documents/2019-02/2019%20PADI%20Worldwide%20Statistics.pdf

CMAS, instead, released roughly 250,000 certifications per year (I do not have an official number, this is what I heard during a presentation back in 2018), through their over 130 affiliated federations operating in 102 countries: Federations
So you could say that roughly one diver over every 5 considers deco as a safe practice for recreational divers, the others 4 think that deco is a dangerous practice requiring special "tech" training.

Back to topic: proper trim and buoyancy control was a very important topic during my first-level (basic) CMAS training, so again I think that the same statistics applies: for CMAS-trained divers (one over 5), buoyancy and trim are basic skills who should be mastered by any (advanced) rec diver, whilst the others 4 over 5 think that being able to maintain the wanted attitude is an advanced skill, which is in the realm of technical divers only. So in reality I think that there is a strict connection between deco practice and trim control, as both are "tech" capabilities (if we accept the definition of "tech" used by the majority of divers).

 

[Chavodel8en]

So, after 24 pages of sometimes intense assertions (gaslighting?) about the horizontal rigidity of some divers, the fact remains that the title of this thread is a Red Herring and an exaggeration of horizontal diving proponents' position.

To whit, it is not a requirement to be horizontal at all times on any dive. However, we do lament the inability of many divers to dive horizontally when they should. Please don't hate us cuz you can't dive like us.

I was diving the local kelp forest the other day, and I paused to look up at the sunlight filtering from the surface.

A pair of DIR divers frog kicked by, smacked me in the back of the head and did the tsk-tsk sign with their finger.

Dive and let dive? As I am feeling bullied now, I will maintain a horizontal position always.

 

[billgraham]

Please don't hate us cuz you can't dive like us.

Word.

 

[Centrals]

Deco dives are recreational dives for all divers worldwide who have a recreational diving certification which allows for deco dives. Whilst US-based for-profit agencies generally do not release such certifications, many other agencies worldwide release them at their higher training level.
For example, my 3-stars CMAS diving certification sets a max depth of 50m in air with deco also on air.
Here in Europe and UK a lot of divers are certified by these not-commercial agencies. Not all of them reach the highest certification degree. But also divers who get only one-star certification have this concept that deco on back gas is a fully recreational activity, of course requiring proper training, proper equipment, and proper certification.
About numbers. PADI issued around 1 million certifications per year worldwide (before pandemics):

https://www.padi.com/sites/default/files/documents/2019-02/2019%20PADI%20Worldwide%20Statistics.pdf

CMAS, instead, released roughly 250,000 certifications per year (I do not have an official number, this is what I heard during a presentation back in 2018), through their over 130 affiliated federations operating in 102 countries: Federations
So you could say that roughly one diver over every 5 considers deco as a safe practice for recreational divers, the others 4 think that deco is a dangerous practice requiring special "tech" training.

Back to topic: proper trim and buoyancy control was a very important topic during my first-level (basic) CMAS training, so again I think that the same statistics applies: for CMAS-trained divers (one over 5), buoyancy and trim are basic skills who should be mastered by any (advanced) rec diver, whilst the others 4 over 5 think that being able to maintain the wanted attitude is an advanced skill, which is in the realm of technical divers only. So in reality I think that there is a strict connection between deco practice and trim control, as both are "tech" capabilities (if we accept the definition of "tech" used by the majority of divers).

I was referring to his pathetic statement "some people regarding night dive as tech" without any quote or reference. Seen it too many times from this character.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To whit, it is not a requirement to be horizontal at all times on any dive. However, we do lament the inability of many divers to dive horizontally when they should. Please don't hate us cuz you can't dive like us.

Bingo!

For some reason, people who deny this simple concept remind me of flat earthers.

I believe I am part of a growing group of people, not necessarily just instructors, who wish to lift the bare minimum of performance. I do think we as a group could improve the effectiveness of our communication as @The Chairman summarized it succinctly, but I still don't think it will get through all the naysayers heads.

 

[David Novo]

Why so many(majority from my experience) divers do not dive horizontally. There must be some logical reasons eg. initial training, lack of time to improve etc.
I do not feel any superior to be able to dive horizontally.
But I hate/resent those who believe it is the only way.
This is 2022 not back to 2000 but same condescending attitude from some divers.

It is not the only way, but the easiest to avoid undesirable outcomes (silting, kicking coral, etc), while close to the bottom.

For sure there are divers who can do that in other positions but for the vast majority, the easiest way would be to be horizontal.

However, it still requires proper instruction from the get go or some effort to fix it later. Hence, why the majority is not able to do it.

 

[Centrals]

I believe I am part of a growing group of people, not necessarily just instructors, who wish to lift the bare minimum of performance. I do think we as a group could improve the effectiveness of our communication as @The Chairman summarized it succinctly, but I still don't think it will get through all the naysayers heads.

Start with the training agency first otherwise nothing will work.
Plenty of beginner divers learnt it while on holiday and spare time is not something most of them have in abundance.
Some operators actually advertise 3 days for OW certificate! And the class probably has 10-12 divers and even with the help of Ass. Instructor/DM where is the time for finning technique and buoyancy control? Not much.