Is horizontal position really better?

[Blugold]

Really enjoy when experienced divers step back and reflect and are still willing to share their learnings with some of us nooobs by comparison.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Are we looking at the same still picture in post #165? I see a diver who is possibly motionless, hanging in the water. I see nothing to make me think he is bicycling, nor is he at a 45deg angle.
??

No, not that one, the cavern photo.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Though I do note your LOL. It is very possible you are being ironic about their form and effort.

We all need some more levity in the forums. They get too serious at times. Also why not just have divers stay 3 feet away from walls and the sea bed beneath them. I see many divers hugging the terrain. I tend to stay away a bit more. Unless of course I want to drop down to do some macro photography and do a fin pivot on some rocks., not corals lol.

I only dive in a t shirt and shorts so not wanting to get coral tattoos I always know where my limbs are. I like to take other divers with no wetsuits over fire corals in shallow water, or find places with lots of sea urchins to take photos of. Amazing how quickly one learns that horizontal trim and knowing where your body parts are in relation to the reefs.

In this video I was definitely vertical as the turtle descends to me then on my back horizontal as it passes overhead then switch to face down horizontal when following the turtle at the end.

 

[RainPilot]

Any agency offers propulsion technique speciality course?

I dont know of a course that is ONLY propulsion, but several agencies offer courses that include propulsion as well as trim, buoyancy and such. RAID has Peak Performance Diver, GUE has Fundies, UTD has Essentials of Rec (or Tec) as well as the Extreme Scuba Makeover. NAUI has the Intro to tech course which covers all of these and is a good course for divers even if they don't plan to go tech, the lessons are invaluable even in rec diving. There are more, those are just the ones I teach / have taken.

I learnt all those techniques from IANTD Tec Wreck course 20yrs ago.
Some divers take courses because they like to collect card.
Can instructor offers specialty course which is not included in the "official" program offered?

As others have indicated, there are methods to have a specific syllabus accredited as a speciality, the process varies by agency but usually a mentoring session will be much less effort to arrange, and often cheaper for the student.

Honest question - how do people maintain depth within an inch or two without any visual reference for minutes at a time? It's not to difficult with open eyes, but how is it done without any reference?

Generally, by getting good at doing it with many references and paying attention to your body and gear, then reducing the references over time. I practice in the pool by taking a short length of cord (6 inches/15cm or so) with a weight at one end and my hand on the other. I hover in the pool close to the bottom, once I am comfortable and stable I close my eyes. My focus is on having no tension in the cord from going up and not having my fingers touch the bottom if going low. It's demanding but fun (for me anyway) and it will VERY quickly show up incorrect weighting etc that you may be unconsciously compensating for.

 

[Adobo]

Honest question - how do people maintain depth within an inch or two without any visual reference for minutes at a time? It's not to difficult with open eyes, but how is it done without any reference?

I won't claim to be the expert of buoyancy but I will offer my 2 cents...

I used to think the same way - a diver needs to be able to maintain their depth without any reference. I thought that I was a pretty sucky diver as I could not maintain my depth without a reference. Then it dawned on me - maybe its not that I need to be able to maintain depth without a reference but rather, I need to know what references I have at my disposal.

In recreational diving, you almost always have a visual reference. These references include:
- the reef - during the dive, you are usually looking at the reef. The reef gives you a visual reference
- anchor line - if you are diving from a boat, the anchor line can serve as a visual reference. Note that if there is a lot of swell, the boat will move the anchorline up down and therefore it becomes less reliable
- spool with your SMB - if you are ascending and the boat is not anchored, you will have to deploy your SMB. You can lock your spool such that there is tension on the line while you are at your desired depth. This actually works great for you as you can feel when you are ascending or descending just by holding the spool. It is also works great as the spool will give your buddy a visual reference.
- computer - ideally, you will have other reliable references for depth. But if you don't, for example, if you are travelling mid water or you are ascending on an anchor line and the anchor line is moving a lot due to swell, you can use your computer's depth gauge. Just keep in mind that you cannot fixate on your computer. You need to be diligent to maintain situational awareness of other things beyond your current depth.
- your buddy - in an unfortunate case where you lose your mask during a dive and no backup mask is available, your vision will be impaired. In this case, your buddy can serve as your touch reference for your depth
- if using one, your drysuit - this one is kind of imperfect. At least for me. But it will tell you - if you have adjusted your drysuit for the current depth you want to be at, you will feel it get tighter if you descend and get loose if you ascend. For me, by the time I know, I usually moved a couple of feet already. Anyway, it is an indicator all the same.

I can't think of a situation where you have no reference for depth when doing recreational dives. The only one I can conjure up is if you purposefully dive when the environment has almost zero vis.

 

[scubadada]

I won't claim to be the expert of buoyancy but I will offer my 2 cents...

I used to think the same way - a diver needs to be able to maintain their depth without any reference. I thought that I was a pretty sucky diver as I could not maintain my depth without a reference. Then it dawned on me - maybe its not that I need to be able to maintain depth without a reference but rather, I need to know what references I have at my disposal.

In recreational diving, you almost always have a visual reference. These references include:
- the reef - during the dive, you are usually looking at the reef. The reef gives you a visual reference
- anchor line - if you are diving from a boat, the anchor line can serve as a visual reference. Note that if there is a lot of swell, the boat will move the anchorline up down and therefore it becomes less reliable
- spool with your SMB - if you are ascending and the boat is not anchored, you will have to deploy your SMB. You can lock your spool such that there is tension on the line while you are at your desired depth. This actually works great for you as you can feel when you are ascending or descending just by holding the spool. It is also works great as the spool will give your buddy a visual reference.
- computer - ideally, you will have other reliable references for depth. But if you don't, for example, if you are travelling mid water or you are ascending on an anchor line and the anchor line is moving a lot due to swell, you can use your computer's depth gauge. Just keep in mind that you cannot fixate on your computer. You need to be diligent to maintain situational awareness of other things beyond your current depth.
- your buddy - in an unfortunate case where you lose your mask during a dive and no backup mask is available, your vision will be impaired. In this case, your buddy can serve as your touch reference for your depth
- if using one, your drysuit - this one is kind of imperfect. At least for me. But it will tell you - if you have adjusted your drysuit for the current depth you want to be at, you will feel it get tighter if you descend and get loose if you ascend. For me, by the time I know, I usually moved a couple of feet already. Anyway, it is an indicator all the same.

I can't think of a situation where you have no reference for depth when doing recreational dives. The only one I can conjure up is if you purposefully dive when the environment has almost zero vis.

You also have little floaty things in the water, right in front of your face.

 

[RobPNW]

I'm a newbie but it seems the most efficient position should be the default and then you adjust as needs arise. It also seems to me that many more experienced people may dive with a drysuit often which adds other credence to a horizontal position.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I can't think of a situation where you have no reference for depth when doing recreational dives.

It has happened on night dives in open water when peoples lights have failed. Sometimes on night dives I will turn off my lights at depth and see if I can maintain depth with my eyes closed. It's not easy.

 

[Centrals]

Remind me of skiing!
Divers and skiers are the same as most of them are looking for FUN. And they do not take it seriously because they only do that once a yr or even less.
Same on any sports.

"Perfect" trimming is nothing to write home about. There are far more dangerous drivers on the road and they got away with murder(hit and run).

 

[David Novo]

I have been kicked on couple of occasions by divers "frog kick". They were too pre-occupied with the camera/video.
There are many divers believing they are 'better' because of some trivial techniques. Nothing to write home.

Considerate is the word.

Remind me of skiing!
Divers and skiers are the same as most of them are looking for FUN. And they do not take it seriously because they only do that once a yr or even less.
Same on any sports.

"Perfect" trimming is nothing to write home about. There are far more dangerous drivers on the road and they got away with murder(hit and run).

Should I take home as a conclusion that divers as a rule should not care about trim and kick the bottom because there are worse problems in the world?