Is horizontal position really better?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

In my experience, the things I read in scubaboard resemble very little of what I experience in real life when I go diving.

In truth, you could do everything that you read about in scubaboard as the "best practice". Nobody on the dive boat while you are on vacation will give a ****. No one will care if your trim was perfect or if you were horizontal the whole time. No one cares. The only thing people will care about is you kicking the reef around. Or if you **** up their dive because you did something stupid.

Dive vertical, dive horizontal, whatever. You do you, boo boo and don't let a bunch of strangers in scubaboard occupy real estate in your head. Unless they are paying rent.

On the other hand, you regular dive buddies might care how you do your dive. In which case, you should get on the same page in terms of what you expect from each other.

Yeah I was really horrified when I was diving in Belize last February. People crawling over coral to get pictures, people see-sawing from being extremely foot heavy, fins kicking coral left and right.

And no one had a f-ing clue.
Ah, how the industry and society have a death grip on mediocrity. I wouldn't recommend diving in Belize as the reefs (at least at South Water Caye and Glovers Reef) were pretty beat up.

Its sad that proponents of control, awareness, and skills are painted as the lunatic fringe.

 

[Adobo]

That's a fair point, but "militant" doesn't sound like the best choice of word to me. "Militant" sounds aggressive. Rather, WHEN I want to be in horizontal trim, I'm "meticulous" or something along those lines, about being in horizontal trim. I don't tilt up and use the corrugated hose dump but rather the rear dump. It MIGHT be fine under some circumstances to tilt up briefly and use the corrugated hose dump, but I'm afraid if I were to do it too much I would allow myself to get into a habit of doing so. As has been mentioned, when you're in horizontal trim there is often a reason, such as being close to a silty bottom or coral reef, and breaking trim might stir up the bottom or harm the reef. So I want my reflex or muscle memory to be to use the rear dump. For that reason, I make it a habit to always use the rear dump when I'm horizontal. But that's just me. If someone else is in blue water and wants to use their corrugated hose, who am I to object? I would only point out that one should be wary of allowing it to become a habit. Is that militant?

When I took GUE Cave1 moons ago, my instructor vented using the hose dump. In the cave.

I asked during the debrief why. He said that he uses whatever tools makes sense at the time. We were in a big area of the cave, nowhere near the bottom. He was venting his drysuit anyways so why not?

Honestly, there are times when I read stuff on scubaboard that things get blown completely out of proportion. Its like reading about bizarro scuba world or something.

 

[scubadada]

In my experience, the things I read in scubaboard resemble very little of what I experience in real life when I go diving.

In truth, you could do everything that you read about in scubaboard as the "best practice". Nobody on the dive boat while you are on vacation will give a ****. No one will care if your trim was perfect or if you were horizontal the whole time. No one cares. The only thing people will care about is you kicking the reef around. Or if you **** up their dive because you did something stupid.

Dive vertical, dive horizontal, whatever. You do you, boo boo and don't let a bunch of strangers in scubaboard occupy real estate in your head. Unless they are paying rent.

On the other hand, you regular dive buddies might care how you do your dive. In which case, you should get on the same page in terms of what you expect from each other.

Lowest common denominator

 

[Adobo]

Yeah I was really horrified when I was diving in Belize last February. People crawling over coral to get pictures, people see-sawing from being extremely foot heavy, fins kicking coral left and right.

And no one had a f-ing clue.
Ah, how the industry and society have a death grip on mediocrity. I wouldn't recommend diving in Belize as the reefs (at least at South Water Caye and Glovers Reef) were pretty beat up.

Its sad that proponents of control, awareness, and skills are painted as the lunatic fringe.

When I first started diving, I was on scubaboard. I was all in. One of the local GUE divers took me under his wing. He got me plugged in and got me diving that way from the get go. What I knew about the diving world was the GUE crew in my area and what I read in scubaboard.

According to scubaboard, and to be fair, I might have selective memory, is that all of these mediocre divers produced by the garden variety agencies, all they do is beat the hell out of the reefs when they go diving. Yet in the countless vacations I have been diving in Hawaii, I have yet to see this. Not once. Most of the other divers on the cattle boats are about what you expect... all diving rented jacket BCs. Some of them don't even have their own fins. Yet the people I see do just fine. And yes, they do their vertical thing whenever they get flustered or whenever they ascend but I can't recall a time seeing these divers beat the **** out of the reef.

I don't know what happens in the other parts of the world. Maybe they do beat the **** out of the reefs in Cozumel or the Cayman Islands or Fiji or whatever. But in my experience in Hawaii, most divers seem to manage ok not having perfect trim all the time. Would I prefer if every diver did it the way I do it? Sure. I think its silly that not everyone uses a BP/W. I think it is silly that not everyone can back kick or helicopter turn. I think it is silly that only my daughter and I were doing proper pre-dive equipment checks before jumping in the water. But you know, I have long since given up on everyone else "seeing the light". So far as I am concerned, as long as they don't kick the reef around and they don't pose a danger to themselves and more importantly, to other people, what do I care if they dive horizontally or vertically?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I might have selective memory, is that all of these mediocre divers produced by the garden variety agencies, all they do is beat the hell out of the reefs when they go diving. Yet in the countless vacations I have been diving in Hawaii, I have yet to see this. Not once.

I was shore diving in Maui a year ago February with locals. Some were kicking coral. I wanted to cry then too. It wasn't as bad as Belize though. There were some exceptions of course.
Now this is not meant as an insult but (oh you know when someone says "but"...) your awareness may be lacking. Now I haven't done a lot of tropical trips, but I generally see coral being kicked at some point without exception. The one exception would be the backside of Molokini as the bottom is quite deep.

 

[Adobo]

I was shore diving in Maui a year ago February with locals. Some were kicking coral. I wanted to cry then too. It wasn't as bad as Belize though. There were some exceptions of course.
Now this is not meant as an insult but (oh you know when someone says "but"...) your awareness may be lacking. Now I haven't done a lot of tropical trips, but I generally see coral being kicked at some point without exception. The one exception would be the backside of Molokini as the bottom is quite deep.

No, you are right. No matter how many dive boats I’ve been on, my sample size is comparatively very small. Too small to come to definitive conclusions. My larger point though was that the way I read it in scubaboard, the problem is so prevalent that I would have seen it myself when diving with/around these folks who have not had “perfect trim” burned into their brains. Yet I haven’t seen it myself. So let’s not be prisoners to what strangers in the internet are saying. It’s entirely possible that what we read in the internet is exaggerated.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, you are right. No matter how many dive boats I’ve been on, my sample size is comparatively very small. Too small to come to definitive conclusions. My larger point though was that the way I read it in scubaboard, the problem is so prevalent that I would have seen it myself when diving with/around these folks who have not had “perfect trim” burned into their brains. Yet I haven’t seen it myself. So let’s not be prisoners to what strangers in the internet are saying.

Fair enough.
In general, I like to hire dive guides to maximize bottom time when diving from a boat. An extra expense sure, but worth it given how infrequently I am able to dive on vacation. After not hiring a guide for one day, now I have an extra motivation to do so. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[Centrals]

And lose the gas out of your drysuit at the same time?

NO. Raised my left hand first.
Very limited experience on dry suit.

 

[Centrals]

When I took GUE Cave1 moons ago, my instructor vented using the hose dump. In the cave.

I asked during the debrief why. He said that he uses whatever tools makes sense at the time. We were in a big area of the cave, nowhere near the bottom. He was venting his drysuit anyways so why not?

Honestly, there are times when I read stuff on scubaboard that things get blown completely out of proportion. Its like reading about bizarro scuba world or something.

So you only write utter nonsense in the PUB!

 

[Adobo]

So you only write utter nonsense in the PUB!

Nah. I am not that picky - I post nonsense pretty much everywhere.