Is dive certification really necessary?

[Akimbo]

In Orange County I could count with one hand how many times I'd been asked for my C-card when getting a tank filled, but I always just assumed it was because of the encrusted salt on my face and the seaweed stuck in my hair.

I rarely had a problem on home-turf either. Life changed when I moved from San Diego to northern California and started flying to warm water sites. California still tends to look at you and your gear more than pieces of plastic. Modified, mismatched, and salt-encrusted gear is a reasonable indicator that you're not new to the game. There is also a way that people carry themselves that says aren't trying to get away with something, or you are a practiced con-man.

 

[Marie13]

In Orange County I could count with one hand how many times I'd been asked for my C-card when getting a tank filled, but I always just assumed it was because of the encrusted salt on my face and the seaweed stuck in my hair.

Around here I’d bet the indicator would be owning steel tanks. No one in their right mind dives aluminum here. Takes too much danged lead.

 

[Bob DBF]

Maybe some shops in different regions are more anal than others. We seem to be pretty laid back here.

Or as Scott once told me "I can tell the difference between a diver and a paint baller before they get through the door." Different demographics between the two groups, and he probably knew most all the divers in county. My wife had tanks filled for me a number of times without an issue, or c-card.


I learned to dive about three dives behind my dad, he was my instructor, using a book and the gear from Sears mail order. I certified OW after diving for 17 years, including mentoring and dives that are now considered technical. I never had issues in my local area but traveling by 1980 not having a card could be an issue trying to get air or on a boat.

 

[Dubious]

Cris Kohl is a Great Lakes diver and historian who has written a lot of Great Lakes wreck books. The main one is the 600+ page Great Lakes Diving Guide. The wrecks are categorized into novice, intermediate, advanced, very advanced, and technical. Also gives an idea of difficulties such as current, low viz, etc. Good place to start, anyway.

I have that book. I think you were likely the one who suggested it. I think his dive rating leaves something to be desired but it is better than nothing. I do like that some of the wrecks note entanglement hazards. I think my shop calls the Prins Willem V a good beginner wreck while Kohl lists it as an advanced dive.

1. Novice Dive:
   1. is less than 60 feet in depth
   2. is suitable for a newly-certified or infrequent diver.
   3. has no or very little current
   4. has good visibility
   5. may include wreck diving with no penetration
2. Intermediate dive:
   1. is suitable for more experienced divers
   2. may reach depths between 60 and 100 feet
   3. may include wreck diving with no penetration
   4. may involve some current or waves
   5. may involve open water sites with boat entries
   6. has good to moderate visibility
   7. may have other conditions that may warrant more experience
3. Advanced dive
   1. may reach depth between 100 and 130 feet
   2. is suitable for very experienced divers
   3. may involve limited wreck penetration where there are multiple, visible exits, or swift or variable current diving, or very cold water diving
   4. may have extremely limited or zero visibility
   5. may require special skills such as navigation, rescue, cavern diving, or special equipment.

 

[Marie13]

The Willie is fine if you stay on the outside, except maybe for depth. The bottom inside the “canyon” is 90ft. I know too many people who love to poke around inside. People have died on the wreck from getting confused inside, probably due to her being on her side.

 

[TMHeimer]

My wife had tanks filled for me a number of times without an issue, or c-card.

But Bob, wasn't that about when Cousteau was a teenager?

 

[CycleCat]

In that case, I will give you some background you might find interesting. Some of the references are to ScubaBoard discussions.

I participated in the recent "Peeing etiquette" discussion and was familiar with the Warhammer maneuver (I saw the picture too)! I caught some of the other gags but did not know about Lynne Flaherty.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

In Orange County I could count with one hand how many times I'd been asked for my C-card when getting a tank filled, but I always just assumed it was because of the encrusted salt on my face and the seaweed stuck in my hair.

Air or Nitrox fills? I don’t think I’ve ever been asked to show a c-card for an air fill. I’ve pretty much always been asked to show a c-card for Nitrox fills...even for places that I frequent regularly.

 

[runsongas]

structured training is a good idea. i don't think anyone is advocating we go back to winging it at your local body of water with some mail order gear, an article off skin diver mag, and some episodes of sea hunt with mike nelson.

the problem is really the independent verification. ISO is supposed to ensure that all the agencies adhere to the standards and are ensuring their certifications meet the criteria, but frankly that is not the case. national agencies would be an alternative, but it could come with onerous restrictions if you let non-divers set the regulations. not a palatable alternative.

 

[AfterDark]

I did not say I was incompetent after OW; I just said I was much better after AOW.

You do realize your statement says that once someone completes the 4 dives of OW instruction, they should have reached the zenith of scuba skill, don't you?

No I don't realize that because that's what you read into it, not what I posted. You can't see anything past the current training regime, so 4 dives that's it! There can be changes made after all. NOBODY reaches their zenith until long after their classes have been completed, regardless of how many classes or how few they take. Put words in somebody else mouth please.

No you didn't post you were incompetent but you stated you were a better diver after AOW which you took soon after OW according to your post. My position is and has always been that the skills taught in OW and AOW should be taught in one class called whatever ya want to call it. IMO you should have came out of OW with those skills you needed to take AOW to learn/acquire. As an Instructor you do after all have a vested interest in the current training regime, so it's understandable you defending it. We can agree to disagree.