Is dive certification really necessary?

[Eric Sedletzky]

I participated in the recent "Peeing etiquette" discussion and was familiar with the Warhammer maneuver (I saw the picture too)! I caught some of the other gags but did not know about Lynne Flaherty.

The Yellow Submarine.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Air or Nitrox fills? I don’t think I’ve ever been asked to show a c-card for an air fill. I’ve pretty much always been asked to show a c-card for Nitrox fills...even for places that I frequent regularly.

Just air. It's been a while since I got a tank filled in OC. Probably before Nitrox was readily available.

 

[Bob DBF]

But Bob, wasn't that about when Cousteau was a teenager?

Which Cousteau?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I ran into an urchin diver once at a local dive shop in my area. He brought in a wetsuit that he had made and there was some discussion about the quality of it.
Anyway, I got to talking to the guy at length and found out a ton about commercial urchin diving. He had been at it for years. This guy was a block, rugged and gnarled, you could just tell he was tough as nails and salty as hell, super nice guy though.
It turns out he was not certified for recreational scuba and mentioned that he couldn’t get on a recreational dive boat or get an air fill. The owner was standing right there behind the counter and just kind of agreed with him then said “We’ll, we can fix that for you”.
It was interesting how seasoned this guy was but yet just because he was lacking a card how handicapped he was to just enjoy recreational scuba.
He mentioned he wanted to retire from urchin diving soon and wanted to do some fun dives in Hawaii.
So here this guy who has more dives than god has to sit through a class taught by some instructor with probably one tenth of his experience and pay the $400 or whatever just so he can go to Hawaii.
Ironic.

 

[Bob DBF]

So here this guy who has more dives than god has to sit through a class taught by some instructor with probably one tenth of his experience and pay the $400 or whatever just so he can go to Hawaii.

Not that I was that experienced when I finally took OW, but I was looking forward to being bored. I was lucky, the instructor was an old timer and used the OW class to turn me into a better mentor and diver since I had the knowledge and skills going into the class.

 

[scuba2you]

The liability with whom?
If a person is self taught and gets equipment and a tank full of air then hurts themselves who get sued?
“Proper teaching system”, that one can be highly debated. To me the term “It’s the instructor, not the agency” reeks of incompetence and corruption. It never should get that bad that an agency like PADI or any of the other ones think they could put full trust into something as unreliable as a human. The AGENCY should be the one doing final testing, not some shady instructor that can hide in a cloak of incompetence and cronyism. PADI should have their own testing facility that you go to for your final testing. You pay your money and you get your card. There would be no more turning in bad instructors once the damage is done and no more “Instructor not agency” crap.
But more to the point, if someone chooses to home school themselves on how to dive locally and they are completely self sufficient, can this be done safely and successfully?

You bring up a very interesting discussion point. Decades ago I was certified as a pilot by a flight instructor...what was that flight instructors relationship with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). How much oversight did that flight instructor have from the FAA. How frequently were those delegated authorities reviewed by a certifying authority?

In the case of a scuba instructor, many of the same questions should apply, how much oversight does that instructor receive from PADI? It’s precisely the same relationship, the certifying organization delegates authority to individuals in order to train and certify to a set criteria. How often is that certification tested? I don’t know any of the answers on the scuba certification but it would be interesting to know how this works.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Not that I was that experienced when I finally took OW, but I was looking forward to being bored. I was lucky, the instructor was an old timer and used the OW class to turn me into a better mentor and diver since I had the knowledge and skills going into the class.

I didn't have any scuba experience when I took my course but apparently I had learned quite a bit from watching Sea Hunt and reading Skin Diver Magazine. I was normally a terrible student but got the second highest score on the dive test. And no, there was not only two students

 

[TMHeimer]

Actually, I have never asked my older brother how he learned to dive in the '60s. We'll have to have a talk on that if the border opens by next summer. As mentioned, he was never certified and got fills at 2 local gas stations (don't know why they would have a compressor, but what do I know about gas stations?). Anyway, got me thinking-- Today there are all sorts of videos online showing the basic scuba skills. Also, places you can read about the academics without even buying an agency manual.
Though I agree with most in that it's foolish to dive without taking an OW course, I have to think it was much less safe in 1963.

 

[BRT]

The company that gave them a gas fill or rented them a cylinder without them being certified would likely get sued. I have never gotten a fill or rented a cylinder without being asked for my card unless they know me and have seen that card in the past.

I find you calling instructors shady to be a bit inflammatory for no good reason.

As for divers not being competent, I know of two people who have had to come back for additional dives due to them not understanding basic concepts.

I don't recall ever being asked for a card for an air fill. Dive shops fill tanks for PCP rifles and for paintball guns all the time.

 

[BRT]

I ran into an urchin diver once at a local dive shop in my area. He brought in a wetsuit that he had made and there was some discussion about the quality of it.
Anyway, I got to talking to the guy at length and found out a ton about commercial urchin diving. He had been at it for years. This guy was a block, rugged and gnarled, you could just tell he was tough as nails and salty as hell, super nice guy though.
It turns out he was not certified for recreational scuba and mentioned that he couldn’t get on a recreational dive boat or get an air fill. The owner was standing right there behind the counter and just kind of agreed with him then said “We’ll, we can fix that for you”.
It was interesting how seasoned this guy was but yet just because he was lacking a card how handicapped he was to just enjoy recreational scuba.
He mentioned he wanted to retire from urchin diving soon and wanted to do some fun dives in Hawaii.
So here this guy who has more dives than god has to sit through a class taught by some instructor with probably one tenth of his experience and pay the $400 or whatever just so he can go to Hawaii.
Ironic.

My Mexican fisherman friend got certified while things were shut down for Covid. No one could guess how many dives he has had in the last 30 years.