Is criticism of Moderators a bannable offense?

[D_B]

Thank you Marvel , and I think Jenny's comment aboot being nice, cautious (respectful) and understanding. pretty much sums up the TOS
It does seem to me that the mods have tried to rein things in lately, or maybe just are more sensitive to transgressions of the TOS ( or maybe they've had "enough" and are swinging the other way after being lenient ?)

I do like the surface interval. and not a chat room because ... I can read what I wrote, change words until it says just what I want and will be understood in the way I said it , plus I'm slow typist and a chat just goes by way too fast for me .. and because I have gotten to meet and dive with some folks here just because of it, meeting people has never been one of my strong points. Thank you so much for having it.
I think it really is hard to keep my bantering limited to the surface interval, and I try not to say something, and I do stop myself, even if tempted in some outside thread ( honest, I have ... I need to be better at it though, and harder still when I see others doing it ... and I do see it happen and I understand aboot not burying the thread)

I like it here at ScubaBoard, for the info, for the friends, and for what Pete has here
Thanks

 

[photohikedive]

Fred, I believe that the mods in general, would love it if they didn't have to do any moderation, if they could just come here on the board and play. However, there are folks that want to push the envelope and push and push, then when their post/thread gets deleted they take offense. Again, its about personal responsibility.
If everybody worked harder at being nice, cautious, trying to understand where the other person was coming from, and trying to communicate their thoughts in well constructed, non attacking thought processes, then we, as mods, would have very little to do.

Jenny,

I think, overall in my long winded post, it is pretty obvious I agree that, for the most part, mods would prefer life to be harmonious here. Why one paragraph is pulled out, to make it look like I am against all mods is part of the problem. I took one small peice of my post to say that not everyone is perfect. While many are pinning it all on the "powerhungry mods" I acknowledge that most of the problems are posters venting thier frustrations here on the board. All I was saying is, it isn't a one way street. All the bad isn't by the "civilians". The mods are people too. They have thier bad days as well. Some might even have feelings for, or against certain members, letting some slide, where others they crack down on. I have seen this personally. Been involved in it. Seen some mods let a thread joke on a subject, but when another person joked about the same thing, well, then that person was told they were trolling.

I know nothing will be resolved by any of this. The ones who like to stir the pot will sit back and chuckle at the frustration they cause. The rest will feel the strain of the trouble caused by the few. Luckily for us, over all, this is the best scuba forum on the internet. I agree with ffestpirate, this is a wonderful place. I have met people through the board that I would never have met otherwise. And as stated before, it has been a great place, because it isn't just about the serious side of scuba. For the most part, we are allowed our fun. As long as that happy medium continues, this will be THE place where scuba folks enjoy gathering when they aren't getting wet.

 

[mike_s]

I agree with PhotoHikeDive's post #243.

Sometimes it does seem that the Mod's let their power "go to their head".


They do good too though, it's just that good work doesn't cause such a controversy and it's always noticed.

 

[The Chairman]

The ones who like to stir the pot will sit back and chuckle at the frustration they cause. The rest will feel the strain of the trouble caused by the few. Luckily for us, over all, this is the best scuba forum on the internet.

Amen, amen and amen.

 

[The Chairman]

They do good too though,

I would suggest then, that we show them how much we appreciate the good they do with our heartfelt thanks and giving them the respect they deserve from doing good as a volunteer.

 

[HowardE]

Second point: I wish it were true that everyone confined their activities to the SI but it's not. There are so many forays into serious threads these days that completely derail & hijack those threads. Whether the thread is in Basic Scuba, Dive Medicine or Site Support (to name a few), these are all forums where we ask that threads remain on topic. Since there are several forums that off topic posting is OK in (especially the SI created FOR Y'ALL for conversational posting), is it really too much to ask that threads in the forums devoted to diving stay on topic- no matter how funny or tempting the topic may seem to some? Here's a suggestion- start a thread about it in SI & joke about it to your heart's content (keeping within the ToS, of course).

Even before the creation of the SI sub-forum... threads were hijacked, de-railed, etc. There was plenty of off topic banter as well. Was there as much? Maybe not. The SI just proves how much people like hanging on the board IMO. I am an SI person, and I also try to participate in other discussion as well outside the SI. Does it sometimes upset me to see genuinely interesting topics de-railed by fellow SI people? well yes. But I'm not going to click the REPORT POST button. Most every internet forum that I have browsed through has some type of off topic posting. It HAS TO BE EXPECTED. If ScubaBoard is in the top 500 of the most active forums in the world, shouldn't the amount of crap (I hope that doesn't offend) also be expected to be proportional?

Third (& this becomes the crux of the matter): It sounds as if, despite what has been getting posted lately, y'all are really asking for more structure, not more freedom. If I reach out to you or someone else by PM or post & tell you that a certain word, behavior, or action does not belong on SB, do I automatically have to make it a "formal" event or can I have the hope that the behavior will change without having to resort to documenting the event in the MS & having it count toward the "three strikes" rule? I honestly don't want to operate that way, & neither do the rest of the staff but it feels as if we are being forced into it.

I think more structure (at least with the clarity of warnings) is a good thing. I know I have spoken to a few staff members in the past week regarding this, and I'll say it here publicly. My buddy who was banned didn't feel as though he was legitimately warned before receiving what is now a 15 day vacation. If someone is getting a warning, it shouldn't be given lightly, like its friendly advice. It should be like an employer would give to an employee... clear and concise. **YOU ARE BEING WARNED** - I don't think it's too childish to treat people that way. I currently employ 15 people, and it works for me. Personally, I think that keeps things in line. When people think they have 2 strikes... it's amazing how they either shape up, or ship out.

Finally, finally (I'm going to be late for work). As has been said many, MANY times by both members & staff. SB is a PRIVATE message board, the rules & direction of which are ultimately decided on by the owner. This is not a democracy. Period. We again ask that this fact be recognized & that our members DO take a look at the ToS to see what is, & is not allowed. Now, this is not designed to drive anyone away but if the rules don't suit you, find a place that does. OTOH, if the information & atmosphere are things that you value, find a way to operate within the rules & continue to hang out, contribute & enjoy what ScubaBoard has to offer.

I completely understand that SB is a PRIVATE board. But are we not all customers? The board has a large amount of advertisers, and supporting members. If enough people get disillusioned with the amount of over reacting soft bellied complainers (sorry if this offends, but this is how I feel about the amount of reporting) the board will lose customers, no? I would hope that customer satisfaction is a great part of how the decision making process is made.

I for one; love ScubaBoard. I have dived with probably close to 100 members (if not more) - I think of you Marvel (and Jenny) as some of my closest friends in Florida, and I owe that to ScubaBoard as well. I have definitely been upset over this whole thing with another of my best friends and most frequent dive buddy's banning (also met on ScubaBoard) - and I hope that people who make decisions about how the board runs are at least thinking about these things, and not getting offended.

 

[Marvel]

Thanks for the input, Howard. It's helpful for you to post your position on the coaching process that you think is the most equitable. Do others agree? Should we become more structured & have each every single member contact of this sort documented & count against them?

Some off topic straying is to be expected (& is tolerated) but I hope that even you agree that there are far too many instances of major hijacking occuring that leave to staff no other recourse but to clean, close, or pull the threads. When a bunch of people just take off, it becomes impossible to do anything else. As an aside to PHD, it also becomes too labor intensive for the staff who does the clean up to PM all the individuals invovled. FYI- Our policy on pulled threads is to notify the only the OP, except if there are ToS violations that need to be addressed with individuals.

 

[HowardE]

I liked the way NetDoc closed the "democracy" thread. Or at least the way he put up a notice - explaining why it was closed. Some people don't come on every day, and could/would be wondering about that... I think that kind of approach is more respectful of the members, than an all of a sudden vanishing w/o a trace.

 

[H2Andy]

My question is, does this go for the SB members as well?

members can't close posts or make them vanish

thus, they don't have to worry about communicating that to the rest of ScubaBoard

Mods can, and do, and thus it is incumbent upon them to be as clear as possible as to why it was done

it will save a lot of grief

Mods have more power, and with more power comes more responsibility

Third (& this becomes the crux of the matter): It sounds as if, despite what has been getting posted lately, y'all are really asking for more structure, not more freedom.

sort of...

people are asking that Mod actions make sense ... that they be explained to us so that they make sense

if the perception is that a Mod action doesn't make sense, it's arbitrary, or is simply random, then there is a feeling that the Mods act in a capcricious manner

now, i know that is not true

so what do you do? COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE

if you close a post, leave a message as to why

if someone asks about a banning, have an official representative (not six Mods saying different things) explain why it was done, within the limits of privacy concerns

if someone complains about a Mod, dont' have three Mods defending that Mod. have an official representative step in and look at the circumstances and then render an explanation

most of the time, most of this will prove to have been a misunderstanding

won't it be great to try to avoid those to begin with?

don't treat a question as a threat to your actions and/or intentions

treat a question as a chance to educate members as to why what you did makes sense

 

[mike_s]

I liked the way NetDoc closed the "democracy" thread. Or at least the way he put up a notice - explaining why it was closed. Some people don't come on every day, and could/would be wondering about that... I think that kind of approach is more respectful of the members, than an all of a sudden vanishing w/o a trace.

I thought it was funny how he started the notice with 'facist regime here...'


(for those who don't get that part, it was a take off to joking comments from the original thread).