Is criticism of Moderators a bannable offense?

[CBulla]

could they be the characters you most associated with?

Depends on my mood

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/scuba_jenny/Miami%20MetroZoo%20Feb%2007/P1010016.jpg

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/scuba_jenny/Miami%20MetroZoo%20Feb%2007/?action=view&current=P1010036.jpg

 

[The Chairman]

and in return, Mods could indicate why some things are done

For the most part they do, Andy. However, we are not interested in humiliating anyone publicly so much of this communication is kept private between the user and the staff. Are we perfect? No way. However, when people go out of their way to create work for us with sock puppets, etc, then quite often it prevents us from a proper follow through on simple misunderstandings.

 

[photohikedive]

and in return, Mods could indicate why some things are done

there are several threads which have been closed which i have *no clue* why they were closed ... if perhaps a note was left indicating the nature of the offense, it would be helpful to us to avoid such things to keep similar threads open in the future

communication is most decidedly a two-way street ... and, when someone is calling the shots, it's even more important that they communicate to the rest of us so that confusion and the ensuing animosity are kept to a minimum

a confused membership is not a happy membership. and an unhappy membership is a pain in the arse for the Mods.

one would think it was in you all's best interest to keep things open and clear

actually, I once started a thread something to this effect. asking why, on "minor" offenses, that the offending poster isn't included in the decision on post removal. I haven't been banned yet, so I do not know how that is handled. Since my thread was started because of a particular incident, I think people focused on that incident instead of the suggested change in policy.

some people want to be offended, finding power in having someone's post removed, or having another member punished by the powers that be. I hope that the moderators take that into consideration when making thier judgements.

I do respect the position that many Mods are placed in. Often they are stuck in the middle of childish arguments. Simple misunderstandings blossum into sore feelings, which escalate into petty arguments.

Sometimes though, I think some people in power overstep thier bounds, allowing personal feelings to over rule thier better judgement, and then use thier power unjustly. Net Doc I think does a pretty good job trying to keep the balance. You can see that with the changes in the roster of SB Staff.

and yes, there is room for improvement, but that goes for all of us, not just the volunteers who work to keep this place from being a spam and troll haven.

 

[H2Andy]

Are we perfect? No way.

Pete, it's not an attack on how Mods do things

is a comment on how some things might be done different for better communications

i was refering not to bannings but to closing posts without leaving any indication as to why it was done

you guys are missing golden opportunities to communicate with us and tell us what is not acceptable in this case, so that we may avoid it in the future

each Mod action is a communication with the members. how clear that communication is is up to the Mods. if you don't make it clear, it will be an unclear communciation, and it will have repercussions

whether a Mod wants it or not, each and every action taken "says" something to the community. the clearer that action is, the less room there will be for miscommunication and ill-feeling

 

[photohikedive]

Depends on my mood

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/scuba_jenny/Miami%20MetroZoo%20Feb%2007/P1010016.jpg

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/scuba_jenny/Miami%20MetroZoo%20Feb%2007/?action=view&current=P1010036.jpg

I don't know what muppet that first one was. my borther watches YingYangYo, you remind me of that a little

 

[wardric]

... where you can choose to come and go as you please,...

No we cannot, we're addicted now... it's like a black hole... we... cant... get... out...:11:

 

[ffestpirate]

If I remember rightly, permission was asked and granted for the MLF sock puppet. Obviously, they knew that this was against the rules and asked for a special exception. After it was done, the sock puppet was disabled. We don't mind doing things for a good cause, but that shouldn't be taken as cart blanche to create more sock puppets. I might be confusing this with another sock puppet and if so, I am sorry.

Of course, in today's climate of "Who me?", no one seems to want to admit they were wrong. It's so much easier to dis the volunteers trying to keep things civil and call us names. I think it was Walter who has "No raindrop ever feels it is responsible for the flood" and this is so true. Rather than trying to work with the volunteers, there are a few who are content to waste their time trying to push the envelope of what is acceptable.

This board is such a valuable resource for those who are just learning to dive as well as for many verterans that it just pains me that some are obsessed with trying to disrupt the harmony of our community. I don't pretend to know why they do this, but I do know that it just ties up volunteer time and stymies many a new user from participating when they see this kind of thing. It's just not right.

OK, one more time. Mods will make mistakes just like me and you. If you feel that you have been banned or disciplined for all the wrong reasons, please use my contact info which I have cunningly hidden at that bottom of every one of my posts and contact me. Bans have been cut short when the user seems to "get it". However, if you try to subvert any suspension, you will ONLY make it worse.

But hey, if you just want to create havoc then feel free to call us whatever you want in the open forum. But pardon me if I (and many others) just assume that you have absolutely NO INTEREST in resolving any issues and just want to cause trouble. Some people seem to live for the drama.

As for MLF, there was no permission requested, nor was there permission granted. We took it upon ourselves. The reason we weren't warned and the reason we weren't vacationed, is because we were doing something kind for someone else.
I am a huge proponent of personal responsibility. I'm tired of people having to blame someone else because their coffee was too hot when it spilled on their lap. Did Chip screw up? Yeah, he did. However, he was relatively harmless and remained in our SI group when he did(which is also an opt in thread). I have pushed the envelope, as have most of those in our thread. But we remain in our thread. Most of it is humor, some is not. But the bottom line is, you don't have to agree with or even like what someone has to say, but you have to respect their right to say it.
I like you Pete, and I love several of the mods who are also good friends of mine. I resent the Hell out of the comments that refer to "disrupting the harmony", and "living for the drama". I am working on attaining my instructor rating, and I care about the sport and the people who pass through my world. The students that I love most, are the ones that need the extra help. They are the ones that wind up feeling a sense of accomplishment that most of us will never understand. Scubaboard is a rich resource and I yell its praises to everyone I meet. There is no where else where you can go that comes close to the wealth of information that you can find on this board, and for that, I commend you. The SI was never intended for as an information outlet. It was a place where people could blow off steam, have some fun and even gripe about whatever you disagree with. That was my favorite aspect. It's becoming a "look over your shoulder" environment. You have people from all around the world here and everyone is different. You have people from all over the country here. Everything voiced will not appeal to everyone, and that's okay. We call that freedom of speech. That goes back to your comment of "who me?". If you don't like something, change the channel. Don't set rules that cater to the easily offended, as we willl all be forced to pay that cost. As for "harmony", we're a family here. Not everyday is going to be wine and roses. We will have our good days, and we will have our bad days. Sometimes people are going to disagree, and even fight. That's okay, it makes us stronger. The cool thing is, we live in a country where we're allowed to be individuals.

Thanks for your time,

Chris

 

[Scuba_Jenny]

Pete, it's not an attack on how Mods do things

is a comment on how some things might be done different for better communications

i was referring not to bannings but to closing posts without leaving any indication as to why it was done

you guys are missing golden opportunities to communicate with us and tell us what is not acceptable in this case, so that we may avoid it in the future

each Mod action is a communication with the members. how clear that communication is is up to the Mods. if you don't make it clear, it will be an unclear communication, and it will have repercussions

whether a Mod wants it or not, each and every action taken "says" something to the community. the clearer that action is, the less room there will be for miscommunication and ill-feeling

My question is, does this go for the SB members as well? How many times have there been posts back and forth, baiting, trolling, insults, and general demeaning statements posted? Each poster is responsible for their posts. If something gets deleted, or a member gets banned, are they taking responsibility for their actions, or are they whining because "it's not fair?"

Sometimes though, I think some people in power overstep their bounds, allowing personal feelings to over rule their better judgment, and then use their power unjustly.

Fred, I believe that the mods in general, would love it if they didn't have to do any moderation, if they could just come here on the board and play. However, there are folks that want to push the envelope and push and push, then when their post/thread gets deleted they take offense. Again, its about personal responsibility.
If everybody worked harder at being nice, cautious, trying to understand where the other person was coming from, and trying to communicate their thoughts in well constructed, non attacking thought processes, then we, as mods, would have very little to do.

 

[The Kraken]

If each and every member of ScubaBoard would take the time to read and comprehend the Forum TOS, so much of what has transpired here and alomst all of the dialogue in this thread would be superfluous.

The Kraken

 

[Marvel]

Chris, thanks for publicly setting the record straight on the MLF sock puppet- I think Pete was confused... . Yes, we let it go that one time because of what the sock puppet was created to accomplish. Did we need to issue a formal warning to the perpetrators for y'all to "know" that it was against the ToS?

FYI- I'm not being sarcastic, the questions I'm going to ask & the statements I'm going to make are all an attempt a legitimate dialog.

Second point: I wish it were true that everyone confined their activities to the SI but it's not. There are so many forays into serious threads these days that completely derail & hijack those threads. Whether the thread is in Basic Scuba, Dive Medicine or Site Support (to name a few), these are all forums where we ask that threads remain on topic. Since there are several forums that off topic posting is OK in (especially the SI created FOR Y'ALL for conversational posting), is it really too much to ask that threads in the forums devoted to diving stay on topic- no matter how funny or tempting the topic may seem to some? Here's a suggestion- start a thread about it in SI & joke about it to your heart's content (keeping within the ToS, of course).

Third (& this becomes the crux of the matter): It sounds as if, despite what has been getting posted lately, y'all are really asking for more structure, not more freedom. If I reach out to you or someone else by PM or post & tell you that a certain word, behavior, or action does not belong on SB, do I automatically have to make it a "formal" event or can I have the hope that the behavior will change without having to resort to documenting the event in the MS & having it count toward the "three strikes" rule? I honestly don't want to operate that way, & neither do the rest of the staff but it feels as if we are being forced into it.

On a related note, lately certain words have become "in vogue" on SB- words that we do not filter because they have double meanings. Legitimate words by dictionary definition but words that have secondary meanings that violate to ToS. If I (or another Mod) advise our members that one of those words is not allowed on SB & cite the relevant ToS passage, why can y'all not extrapolate & recognize that other words like those are also not allowed? Why do we have to crack down on each & every word individually? You are all intelligent adults. Do we have to post a sticky with a list of words that are unacceptable in the context that they are being used or do we have to treat each & every one as individual "strikes?" Now, I recognize that most of the time the use of the words is confined to the SI & that y'all are joking with one another. If the ToS were not so clear, I'd actually be inclined to let it go (as others probably would as well) because I can see that in the context they are being used they are not meant to insult or degrade.

Two reasons that we can't- First & foremost the ToS, as I have cited, & the wider audience that y'all seem to be oblivious of. Although the SI has a "gathering of friends" feel to it, y'all are NOT over at someone's house hanging out- you are on a message board on the internet. We also cannot allow them because, although y'all may have a relationship & understanding that makes it clear that it's a joke, someone else outside of that circle may get hurt or angered if you say that to them. Not to mention that if the words are allowed to stand when we know y'all are joking with one another, it's only a matter of time until they are used to insult someone else- & they have been quite frequently. The same argument applies to the images that have been pulled lately, BTW.

Now, do you see a little more clearly the corner that you are all boxing us into? Everyone on the staff of SB is first & foremost a member of SB- & subject to the same ToS. When we participate in threads, we are doing so as members, for the most part & that's how we want it to be. As members, we also build relationships with others & we have our own points of view that we want to express. Now, I'm not such a pollyanna that I don't know that when we become staff we are more limited- that's part of the Modiquette that is sent to each & every new staff member & that we agree to abide by. We have even more rules to follow that y'all & if we don't, we are just as subject to coaching & consequences as y'all are.

Finally, finally (I'm going to be late for work). As has been said many, MANY times by both members & staff. SB is a PRIVATE message board, the rules & direction of which are ultimately decided on by the owner. This is not a democracy. Period. We again ask that this fact be recognized & that our members DO take a look at the ToS to see what is, & is not allowed. Now, this is not designed to drive anyone away but if the rules don't suit you, find a place that does. OTOH, if the information & atmosphere are things that you value, find a way to operate within the rules & continue to hang out, contribute & enjoy what ScubaBoard has to offer.

FYI- the ToS is easily linked to from every forum by clicking on the Scubaboard menu & then choosing Terms of Service from the drop down menu.