Is cave diving safer than Open Water

[Rayk]

Tell this to the widows and orphans of those that have died in caves.

Also I would wager that 90% plus of those cave fatalities would not have been fatalities in open water. (allowing 10% for medical issues even though cave divers are likely in better physical condition on average than many OW divers)

As in any endeavor you will find there are old cave divers, bold cave divers, but very few old and bold cave divers, aside form the terminally ill trying to call in on a policy.

Being competent while developing knowledge, experience and a mindset has nothing much to do being old and bold divers argument. It was decades ago “I think” people were debating what is best way to do things people were claiming some were doing it wrong some were doing it right.

Today we are pretty lucky in terms of equipment, knowledge and training opportunities. No need to “discover” or “DIY” things.

Incidents, accidents often don’t happen themselves, multiple bad decisions takes things there. I can’t comment about widows and orphans apart of my sympathy for them, but SCUBA diving is dangerous activity and an extreme sport, which may lead serious injury or death. I made my piece with that idea. Like many things is in life, every decision is a trade off, badminton could be safer alternative.

Another thing is, when i say cave diver is safer in a cave than open water diver in a sea, it is not “only” about taking four day course. Understanding, knowledge, mindset, equipment, knowing limits all goes together. Not all divers and all dives are same.

 

[The Chairman]

No need to “discover” or “DIY” things.

You wouldn't want to look at my kit.

 

[Rayk]

You wouldn't want to look at my kit.

You guys are different breed.

 

[Tracy]

It has been said that many incidents involving very experienced divers have stemmed from complacency and/or from over-estimating their abilities. The divers in the middle of the experience spectrum are probably the safest divers.

I would argue the opposite.
When you are new, everything is new and you are very cautious. When you have 20 years in, you have a depth of undertsanding of what you don't know and what might happen.
My guess would be divers with 100-200 dives are probably the most likely to make fatal mistakes. They have it figured out, but don't really know what else could be coming.

 

[kensuf]

I would argue the opposite.
When you are new, everything is new and you are very cautious. When you have 20 years in, you have a depth of undertsanding of what you don't know and what might happen.
My guess would be divers with 100-200 dives are probably the most likely to make fatal mistakes. They have it figured out, but don't really know what else could be coming.

Having pulled a few dead guys out of caves over the years, I'd say that we get very experienced people, very inexperienced people, and people in the middle. Without fail, almost all of them broke at least one of the rules of accident analysis.

 

[tursiops]

The Wikipedia summary is interesting, trying to pull together the many pieces. A meta-analysis, almost.

Scuba diving fatalities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kensuf]

It's interesting that according to that Wikipedia article, 5% of scuba diving fatalities were cave diving. I highly doubt that 5% of all scuba dives are in caves, so if that article is correct, then cave diving is definitely more dangerous than OW diving - thread closed.

BTW, if it wasn't posted here before, Thirty years of American cave diving fatalities - PubMed

And yes, cave diving is more dangerous than OW diving. Anyone that tells you otherwise is fooling themselves. But, a trained cave diver is likely to be safer than your average OW diver. These two concepts are not exclusive.

 

[rexman24]

It's interesting that according to that Wikipedia article, 5% of scuba diving fatalities were cave diving. I highly doubt that 5% of all scuba dives are in caves, so if that article is correct, then cave diving is definitely more dangerous than OW diving - thread closed.

BTW, if it wasn't posted here before, Thirty years of American cave diving fatalities - PubMed

And yes, cave diving is more dangerous than OW diving. Anyone that tells you otherwise is fooling themselves. But, a trained cave diver is likely to be safer than your average OW diver. These two concepts are not exclusive.

I would agree. I don't think by any stretch of anything that cave diving is safer.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I think some folks here are confusing the terms "open water" vs Open Water Certified".

 

[J-Vo]

....it's not just training: it's the mindset...

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I would also add it's not about the gear or redundancy. Although the mindset spawns those.

There are people with cave/technical certs that don't have the mindset. In my mind they are still OW divers with another card.