Is AOW a required prerequisite to do a Divemaster?

[boulderjohn]

But you were right that the DM certification is not by itself a qualification for deep dives. In fact, the DM cert does not even satisfy the deep dive prerequisites for the PADI Tec 40 course.

What are the required qualifications for deep dives, other than Tec 40 (which I teach, BTW)? AOW is not enough for Tec 40, either. The only dive operations I know that have deep diving requirements list AOW or its equivalent. I am pretty darn sure that if you are doing a dive to the Spiegel Grove in Florida and present a DM card, you will be good to go.

So, for what deep dive requirements is AOW acceptable but DM is not?

 

[GameChanger]

PADI AOW is a joke of a course!
It's just a money-grab IMHO. Having said that, the Peak Buoyancy stuff should be mandatory for the OW course.

 

[Scraps]

BoulderJohn,

None that I know of.

I was just affirming wstorms' comment in #17 that DM doesn't qualify you to dive deep. I'm getting ready to take Tec 40 and was surprised the shop wanted me to take the deep specialty. Further, they held to the PADI standard exactly on logged dives: I had a bunch of dives between 95 and 99 feet, but only 8 that were actually in 3 digits. (One of the reasons I like that shop is that they don't cut corners, but it was inconvenient on this occasion.)

I wasn't trying to get in the middle of the training standards vs. recreational limits discussion. I'm with you on that.

 

[Hartattack]

the DM led divers past 130 feet with AL 80s, ignored a diver's low on-air signal, and then refused to share air when the diver's signal switched to OOA.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't this answer your question? ^

Nevertheless, we can agree to disagree, @boulderjohn. I will never place a diver I guide or instruct in a position to go beyond their standard of certification unless that is the goal of the course. E.g., If I am guiding a dive and those two divers have an open water certification, guess what depth we stay above? that's how I was mentored as an Instructor and DM, and That's the conservatism I tend to follow. Cheers.

 

[boulderjohn]

Doesn't this answer your question? ^

Nope.

You said that a DM could be sued if something happened in a guided dive in which the DM took a dive a smidgeon below training depth requirements. Here is what I asked: "Can you cite a single case in which a DM was sued for that reason alone?" I then gave an example in which a DM, who in that role has a duty to care for the clients being led, took divers to a depth where going out of air was a foreseeable danger, ignored a low on air signal and then refused to share air when that diver went out of air. Think about it for a very long time, and you will see that the reasons in that case go beyond going a smidgeon below training depths.

I will never place a diver I guide or instruct in a position to go beyond their standard of certification unless that is the goal of the course. E.g.,

You keep blending instruction and personal diving. With instruction, you must follow standards. With personal diving, there are no standards to follow. If you think there are such standards, please show them.

There is no question in my mind, though, that if you say you will refuse to take OW certified divers past 60 feet in your role as a professional DM working for a dive operation, that you will indeed never do that, because no operator in the world will hire you.

 

[Hartattack]

Nope.

You said that a DM could be sued if something happened in a guided dive in which the DM took a dive a smidgeon below training depth requirements. Here is what I asked: "Can you cite a single case in which a DM was sued for that reason alone?" I then gave an example in which a DM, who in that role has a duty to care for the clients being led, took divers to a depth where going out of air was a foreseeable danger, ignored a low on air signal and then refused to share air when that diver went out of air. Think about it for a very long time, and you will see that the reasons in that case go beyond going a smidgeon below training depths.


You keep blending instruction and personal diving. With instruction, you must follow standards. With personal diving, there are no standards to follow. If you think there are such standards, please show them.


There is no question in my mind, though, that if you say you will refuse to take OW certified divers past 60 feet in your role as a professional DM working for a dive operation, that you will indeed never do that, because no operator in the world will hire you.

Who said, "smidgeon"? I noted below the diver's certified depth.

If I am leading a dive as a DM—that means I am in a professional capacity and held liable for negligence as your example clearly shows above.

Yes, I will refuse to take OW students on a dive below 60ft/18m to which they are not certified. If a dive shop cannot handle me looking out for the safety of their clients and the wellbeing of the shop to stay in business—so be it. I'm not getting sued, and I damn sure am not going to put my employer in harm's way.

Once again. We can agree to disagree, considering it seems you would like to argue, and I don't have time for that ********.

OP, get the AOW, and work your way up to DM.

 

[Bob DBF]

Yes, I will refuse to take OW students on a dive below 60ft/18m to which they are not certified.

Could you direct me to the document that restricts a certified PADI OW diver's depth to 60', rather than recreational limits. Your dive your rules, but it doesn't make them PADI's, or any other agency's rules.

And using bold type doesn't really help make your point.

 

[Hartattack]

Could you direct me to the document that restricts a certified PADI OW diver's depth to 60', rather than recreational limits. Your dive your rules, but it doesn't make them PADI's, or any other agency's rules.

And using bold type doesn't help make your point.

I see the old guys want to beat a dead horse because they have nothing better to do. Okay, Boomer, try to follow along. If I'm hired to guide divers who are open water certified to 60ft, I choose to be conservative and stay within their limits of diving for their safety and my peace of mind. Is that okay with you, or are we going to continue to argue this out?

 

[Bob DBF]

Let me know when you decide to answer my question.




Dive and let dive.

Bob

 

[tursiops]

Let me know when you decide to answer my question.




Dive and let dive.

Bob

LOL. He isn't going to answer your question because he can't. He would rather insult those with considerably more experience and training than he has.