Is a weight belt worn under a BP/W really "ditchable"?

[Litefoot]

I posted this question at the tail end of another thread, but decided to make a new thread. I know proper weighting is essential, but as a new diver, I like having the option of easily ditching weight in an emergency. To me,"ditchable" means quickly and easily shedding ballast. So, in my mind, having to unbuckle the harness, drop the crotch strap, and then unfasten and remove the weight belt wouldn't be quick nor easy for a distressed diver.

I really would like to go with a weight belt, but that aspect is a bit worrisome for me. Maybe it's something I need to try and practice to get more comfortable with it. What are your thoughts?

Edit: The other option I;m considering is the Subgravity Paragon system.

 

[Litefoot]

You are correct, that is not "easily ditchable." Just put the weight belt on top of your harness.

Do you have a picture of the belt over the harness? On my last dive, the only way I could get the weight belt on was to slide it under the crotch strap. Thanks.

There are reasons to wear a weight belt under the harness but for your purposes (making a few assumptions reading between the lines) it would be better over the harness as is traditional.

If you wish to integrate weights into your harness, assuming warm water travel diving, I prefer these, this is the 12 pounds set, they have a pull tab that is QR:


Then get some cam band non-QR pockets for trim weights.

Do the Dive Rite pockets have a way to keep them from sliding around?

I have a quick release on my crotch strap that makes it easier. I certainly don't want to accidentally lose my weightbelt at depth and since I always carry redundant buoyancy I don't see a need to ditch weight except at the surface in an emergency.

That's a good idea (the crotch strap quick release). Maybe that's the psychological edge I need to get past the worry.

My view is a properly weighted, single-tank diver can be positively buoyant (or near enough) on the surface without ditching weight with breath control alone. Taking an extra 3 seconds to loosen the crotch strap shouldn't be an issue if you need even more. (Perhaps try it to see just how easy it is.)

Is there a particular scenario you find worrisome?

I guess I worry about a BC failure. Again, I'm new and I just want the peace of mind of easily dumping weight.

You may have forgotten what it was like as a beginner diver. He has 0-24 so far. When I was a freshly-minted (ie: overweighted) diver, the idea if ditchable weight was super important to me too. As I have gained experience and confidence (and trimmed my ballast by half), I realize it's not really that important to have droppable weight.

You're so right! There is a saying that new backpackers pack their fears, preparing against the things they fear most. That's me right now.

 

[Rose Robinson]

A

I posted this question at the tail end of another thread, but decided to make a new thread. I know proper weighting is essential, but as a new diver, I like having the option of easily ditching weight in an emergency. To me,"ditchable" means quickly and easily shedding ballast. So, in my mind, having to unbuckle the harness, drop the crotch strap, and then unfasten and remove the weight belt wouldn't be quick nor easy for a distressed diver.

I really would like to go with a weight belt, but that aspect is a bit worrisome for me. Maybe it's something I need to try and practice to get more comfortable with it. What are your thoughts?

Edit: The other option I;m considering is the Subgravity Paragon system.

As has already been mentioned, your methodology is not correct.

There are all kinds of ballast options, weight pockets on your harness waist belt, switching from AL to steel cylinders will allow you to actually shed ballast.

I dive in the North Pacific, I dive with steel doubles, and sling whatever else may be needed. I do not own any lead ballast, never have, and I dive with a drysuit full time.

Prior to your dive, work in the shallows, preferably with a partner, and as you were taught in your OW training, dial in your neutral buoyancy. you may need to perform this task pre-dive for a while, especially if your are using rental gear which may be different each time you rent, and if you are diving both salt and freshwater.

You also want to get the idea of ''ditching ballast'' out of your head. ditching a full weight belt will cause you to rocket uncontrollably to the surface, which could have dire consequences.

Do some reading on ''peak performance buoyancy''.

When you visit your local dive shop, be fully knowledgeable of what you need, and not what the clerk would like to sell you, keeping fully in mind, the prime objective of dive shop personnel is to fill the till.

All the very best,

Rose

 

[BlueTrin]

You may have forgotten what it was like as a beginner diver. He has 0-24 so far. When I was a freshly-minted (ie: overweighted) diver, the idea if ditchable weight was super important to me too. As I have gained experience and confidence (and trimmed my ballast by half), I realize it's not really that important to have droppable weight.

I think he is actually pointing out what you just said … i.e. the first thing to do is to be properly weighted.

For OP, you could just split some weights. You could put a bit of weight in a non ditchable place (could be on the webbing or pockets) and some weights on a ditchable belt/pockets. (If you really want these ditchable weights in case you lose buoyancy at the surface)

 

[rx7diver]

... What are your thoughts? ...

Re: 'Is a weight belt worn under a BP/W really "ditchable"?' I say no, it is not--which is why I do NOT do this when I am diving in open water. If I am wearing a lot of weight on my weight belt (like I do when I am wearing my drysuit and Thinsulate undies), I will switch to a nylon webbing weight belt and use two SS buckles on it, and make sure my buddy knows (if I have a dive buddy on the dive).

rx7diver

 

[Lorenzoid]

Being able to ditch weight or otherwise mitigate a BC failure when on the surface is important. Most divers take their OW courses in a traditional jacket-style BC (with no crotch strap), and unless the BC has integrated weight pockets they are also taught to wear a traditional weight belt, which they are taught they can ditch in an emergency (on the surface, I would expect). It need not be different just because a diver switches to a BP/W or other BC with a crotch strap. A weight belt can be worn over the crotch strap. Sure, there is a potential for a weight belt worn in the traditional manner to come undone inadvertently during a dive, but if properly secured and checked on occasionally during the dive, the likelihood is low.

 

[Nemrod]

Do the Dive Rite pockets have a way to keep them from sliding around?

Yes, there is a metal D ring that the harmess can slide into to lock the belts back by the plate. You can also grab a few of these tri-glides in plastic and metal to act as stoppers, never can have to many of these for rigging:

Harness Accessories Piranha Dive Shop |

www.piranhadivemfg.com

You can put a QR clip on the crotch strap up front where easily grabbed. Then put your belt under the crotch strap, or not. If you release the crotch strap QR and the belt QR it will go away, trust me. I am not advocating this for open water level divers.

You do not dump weights underwater but for the most unusual circumstance. Just do not overweight yourself and you will be fine. If you are doing drysuits, though I have and do, I am not expert there and handling of weights and dual BC redundancy is a subject beyond this thread.

 

[inquis]

I guess I worry about a BC failure. Again, I'm new and I just want the peace of mind of easily dumping weight.

Totally understandable! Wear the weight belt on the outside for now, but try this at the beginning of your next dive: take a large breath on the surface -- hold it -- and vent your BC until empty. If you sink with full lungs, you are most definitely overweighted. That is the root problem, and "quickly" ditchable weight is just a stopgap / treating the symptoms. Fix the real problem. (Drop 4 lb before your next dive, and repeat.)

Staying on the surface without air in the BC in your entire kit (including weights) and full tanks will give you that peace of mind you seek. You can then move the weight belt under the crotch strap greatly reducing the likelihood of accidental loss.

 

[boulderjohn]

There has been some very good advice in this thread already. I will weigh in on it with more of a generic concept. If you have to wear a weight belt (not my personal first choice) with a BCD with a crotch strap, there are good points to be made for wearing it over the crotch strap, and there are good points to be made for wearing it under the crotch strap. People can cite emergency situations for which one choice is better, and they can cite situations for which the other choice is better. What it comes down to is making a choice based on probabilities and consequences.

Let's take a catastrophic BCD failure, for example. I have experienced BCD gas loss 3 times in my life, and they are the only 3 cases I know of. In two cases, it was a slow leak from an incompletely screwed on dump valve, and it was easily fixed during the dive. In the third case, I had borrowed a very old wing, and when I pulled the rear dump to lose some air, the plastic tore and the whole thing came off in my hand. No problem. I was able to finish the dive by keeping my shoulders a little higher than the hips so the air would stay in the top portion. I have never heard of a sudden catastrophic loss of BCD buoyancy, so I am guessing it is pretty darn rare.

So let's say I did have a sudden catastrophic BCD failure. Would I sink so rapidly that I needed to do something quickly? That could happen if I were on a tech dive in steel doubles, which is why I always have redundant buoyancy on such dives, but on a single tank dive? Nope. Being properly weighted, I need very little gas in the BC, so that loss of air would be annoying at worst. I would have loads of time to act.

So having concluded that a sudden loss of air int he BCD is highly unlikely and also not likely to be dangerous, I compare that to the potential to lose a weight belt. Having taught students for years using weight belts, I have seen it happen more than a few times. Losing your weights at depth would be a serious problem.

I therefore conclude that comparing those scenarios, the likelihood of losing the weight belt accidently far outweighs the likelihood of suddenly losing all air in the BCD, and the consequences of losing the weight belt are far more serious than losing the ability to drop it quickly. Consequently, I would wear the weight belt under the crotch strap.

 

[Waterwulf]

There's actually a lot of reasons why you might want to dump your weights and having to get half undressed to do it is not a good idea. Most divers never have to dump their weights but when trouble shows up, it shows up fast. I've been diving since the late 60's and have never had to dump them but I have known divers who did and one who didn't but should have. Also, you may not be the one in trouble. You may be helping a buddy and have to dump your own weights to do so.

I was trained old school and still use a Horse Collar type BC. In an emergency, it will float me on my back and keep my head out of the water even if I'm unconscious. It will keep me afloat even while wearing my weights and other gear. Modern BCD's don't do that so it may be even more important to be able to dump your weights quickly. Having to remove this strap and that strap before being able to drop them seems kind of self defeating. How long does it take to drown?

 

[boulderjohn]

Most divers never have to dump their weights but when trouble shows up, it shows up fast.

Can you cite some examples of when you would need to dump all your weights very quickly?

We have had a number of threads on this topic over the nearly two decades I have been a ScubaBoard participant, and the scenario I see described the most is that you realize you are having a medical emergency like a serious heart attack, you fear you are about to pass out, and you want to make sure your body gets to the surface for possible medical intervention.

Perhaps you can suggest some other scenarios.