Is a Swimthrough an overhead?

[Snowbear]

This ain't Coz!
This is the North Pacific.
Water temps in summer are usually high 40's to low 50's at depth....

 

[Dive-aholic]

I think it would be classified as a cavern. You can still see ambient light (most of the time) when you're in it, but you can't directly ascend to the surface. You may be able to at an angle, but would an inexperienced diver in trouble be able to do that or would he/she just inflate the bc? If the 2nd option was taken, is the roof slippery enough for the diver to ride it like a slide? I've dived quarries where a train car with all the windows taken out and large enough to swim through was considered an overhead environment (I'm not sure who made that determination). No matter where you are in that train, you're never farther than 3' from an exit. But you can't make a direct ascent and if you get caught on something (nothing to get caught on there...but you never know) then you're definitely in trouble. This would be especially true with the dead ends Pug mentions.

I'm by no means an expert, but everything I've ever heard and read about overheads is if you can't make a direct ascent to the surface, it's an overhead. The extent of the overhead - cavern, cave, simple wreck, progressive wreck - is what differs.

 

[Uncle Pug]

I guess you're an outlaw cavern diver Snowbear.

So... what about slipping down through and under the boulders at Barwell Island to get to the outside?

 

[knotical]

My (conservative) definition of “overhead” is any environment in which a diver can get in trouble (hitting their head, getting trapped or tangled) by attempting a direct vertical ascent. This includes kelp, the boat, and after an incident, even dive platforms. One student was ascending from under the dive platform and got the bar between their tank valve and their head. Luckily, she was calm, and it became only an amusing incident, but I now mention it in briefings. I’ve also seen divers ascend into other divers, so I guess this could be overhead too.

 

[Wijbrandus]

I generally avoid swim-throughs. Mostly because I'm a big guy, and I tend to underestimate the size of my humpback when the tank is on there. So when the tour guide goes through a hole, my wife and I hang out a minute and see where they come out, and then rejoin the group. I haven't seen anything in a hole worth going into it for.

I don't like beating up the coral, or my 1st stage. Besides, I've often seen better things waiting around outside than the fins of the guy in front of me.

 

[Mako Mark]

snowbear: if your bubbles hit anything other than the surface, you are in an overhead environment.

If you are asking this with reference to training or guiding standards, just think what the prosecuting lawyer would say and you will very quickly find your answer:

Lawyer "so divemaster snowbear, you were in a cave when your diver died?"

Snowbear "no I was in a swimthrough"

Lawyer "but you had rock over your head and you were under water? that sounds like a underwater cave to me your honor"

His Honour: "proceed Mr prosecutor"

Snowbear "Err, .... ummm..."

Lawyer "so Divemaster Snowbear, you were teaching cave diving and you are neither a cave diver nor a cave diving instructor!!"

Snowbear "Err, Umm, I wasnt teaching anything..."

Lawyer "but your client was not a certified cave diver and you were taking them into a cave for the first time, they were learning from you, therefore by default you were teaching them!"

Snowbear: (sobs) "But Im innocent"

Lawyer: "But the PADI standards, in Ethical standards in the GS & P section of the manual says this:

4. Comply with the intent of the PADI Standard Safe Diving Practices
Statement of Understanding while acting in a teaching or supervisory
capacity.

Snowbear: " But I am a safe diver.... honest indjun"

Lawyer: "I beg to differ, The Safe diving practices say:

2. Be familiar with (snip). Engage only in diving activities consistent with my training and experience. Do not engage in cave or technical diving unless specifically trained to do so.

You were not complying with the safe diving practices statement of understanding while under a supervisory situation as any reasonably prudent divemaster or instructor would"


His Honour: "divemaster Snowbear, go directly to jail, do not pass go and do not collect $200"
.

 

[whitedragon13]

I don't have my policy book next to me, but in NAUI lava tubes and swim throughs are surprisingly not considered "overhead." I'll have to look for it tonight.

 

[doole]

I generally avoid swim-throughs. Mostly because I'm a big guy, and I tend to underestimate the size of my humpback when the tank is on there. So when the tour guide goes through a hole, my wife and I hang out a minute and see where they come out, and then rejoin the group. I haven't seen anything in a hole worth going into it for.

I don't like beating up the coral, or my 1st stage. Besides, I've often seen better things waiting around outside than the fins of the guy in front of me.

Aye, that's the rub. What Wijbrandus said. Mark, too.

 

[Hank49]

snowbear: if your bubbles hit anything other than the surface, you are in an overhead environment..

Not always true. A current could take your bubbles under or through an overhead to where they hit the rock/coral and not the surface, while you are not actually directly under it. Not to be nit picky or anything, your honor...

 

[whitedragon13]

I found it...

* Vertical Access. Students are to have immediate vertical
access to the surface at all times during open water training
dives.
Exception to this policy is allowed during:
- Sanctioned specialty training courses such as wreck
diving, cavern diving, cave diving and ice diving that
plan and train for restricted vertical access.
- Controlled orientation dives for certified divers into
overhead environments when conducted by Instructors
who have the appropriate authorization.
- Diving in or under kelp canopies, underwater arches, lava
tubes, caverns, and wrecks that are illuminated by natural
sunlight and from which there is always a visible exit.