leadweight
Contributor
I certified at a resort in the Caribbean where they had no expectation of selling me gear.
Is a BW/Wings setup appropriate for instructors?
- Thread starter mth71
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This will have the greatest affect on what you dive when teaching. If you are an independent instructor or like Mike, you own your own shop, you will be required to dive what the shop sells.
I have two rigs. One for DM'ing classes. One for personal diving. I work for an independent instructor. He has requested I wear my jacket for OW classes. I can wear my harness for everything else.
In a survey of students done by a shop in North Texas the shop had an interesting revelation.
Students assume instructors are given their gear. They also assume the dive master is wearing personal gear, so the DM actually has more power over the buying decisions of the student.
TwoBit
That raises a good point. As a DM, you will do what the instructor requests.
If you know where you will be working, you should check with the instructor first.
BP's may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it won't do you much good if the instructor tells you to dive in a jacket (in which case I would personally find another shop, but that is just me).
In addition, I forgot to mention that, IMHO, it is a little early to buy gear. Get some diving in before you buy.
Finally, how is it that you will start DM so quickly. If you're going through PADI, you've got some training to complete. This should not be rushed. Its a whole lot more fun and enjoyable if you get your experience slowly so that you can absorb it and become comfortable in the water and with other students.
If you know where you will be working, you should check with the instructor first.
BP's may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it won't do you much good if the instructor tells you to dive in a jacket (in which case I would personally find another shop, but that is just me).
In addition, I forgot to mention that, IMHO, it is a little early to buy gear. Get some diving in before you buy.
Finally, how is it that you will start DM so quickly. If you're going through PADI, you've got some training to complete. This should not be rushed. Its a whole lot more fun and enjoyable if you get your experience slowly so that you can absorb it and become comfortable in the water and with other students.
I have to second this part of Leadweight's statment. I dive on a rather large boat, maybe 30 to 35 divers (Cattle boat) several times a month and it's usually near full capacity. Of all the divers I've come across from all over the country, and the world, only a handfull have ever had a BP&W. I've lived here in South Florida for nearly 5 years now and I was only recentely paired up with another diver using this type of rig. Turns out he was certified by GUE and when the LDS staff saw his C card they thought I was tech enough to buddy me up with him.
I do agree that a BP&W is the way to go but unfortunately I think it's going to be the wave of the distant future. It's only recently that the big certification agencies have begun to teach advanced forms of diving and the use of such equipment and there just aren't enough people interested in that kind of diving for manufactures and LDS to mass market this kind of gear. Maybe in the future deeper diving and the use of this type of equipment will go the way Nitrox did, from being something only crazy people did to being mainstream, and in turn BP&W will become more common.
Scott
First of all, thanks for all the great replies. There are a lot of good points, from both the pro-BP/Wing adherents and those who are not yet sold on them.
Please understand that I don't intend to rush it so that I may become a DM in the shortest possible amount of time. It's just that after the weekend in which I became OW certified, I knew that this was something that I wanted to do for the rest of my life, and that I wanted to experience the joy and gratification of teaching other people about exploring the underwater world that few get to experience. I intend on learning everything I possibly can and hope to gain experience in many different types of diving before I actually begin teaching, but I've been bitten by the bug and I just want to go as far as I can in this sport. I love teaching people things (I'll be a flight instructor by summer's end, too), and can't wait to begin teaching through my local shop (there are only two in Wichita, KS, so I won't have much choice if they end up dictating what kind of equipment I use).
I would never compromise the quality of education I give to my students by rushing everything into a given time frame. Nor do I want to cheat myself out of the enjoyment of the journey. I just get excited when I think about all the adventures I'll have, and the people I'll get to meet, wherever my diving career takes me (and that's exactly what I want it to be, a new career...no more desk job).
mth71
Please understand that I don't intend to rush it so that I may become a DM in the shortest possible amount of time. It's just that after the weekend in which I became OW certified, I knew that this was something that I wanted to do for the rest of my life, and that I wanted to experience the joy and gratification of teaching other people about exploring the underwater world that few get to experience. I intend on learning everything I possibly can and hope to gain experience in many different types of diving before I actually begin teaching, but I've been bitten by the bug and I just want to go as far as I can in this sport. I love teaching people things (I'll be a flight instructor by summer's end, too), and can't wait to begin teaching through my local shop (there are only two in Wichita, KS, so I won't have much choice if they end up dictating what kind of equipment I use).
I would never compromise the quality of education I give to my students by rushing everything into a given time frame. Nor do I want to cheat myself out of the enjoyment of the journey. I just get excited when I think about all the adventures I'll have, and the people I'll get to meet, wherever my diving career takes me (and that's exactly what I want it to be, a new career...no more desk job).
mth71
QUOTE]It's only recently that the big certification agencies have begun to teach advanced forms of diving and the use of such equipment [/QUOTE]
I have just decided to get my own gear after 15 years of hire shops. I only dive in warm water and only recreational. I hold PADI Advanced OW and am lucky enough to earn enough to buy what I like. So I had decided to buy a Halcyon Pioneer rig.
Now I'm not so stupid as to think I was going to put it on and go out an do an OW, 30m, strong current & low viz. I intended to do some pool work and a number of easy shallow dives to start with.
But whats all this extra training bit and steep learning curve ?
I am the sort of holiday diver that takes the whole safety thing seriously - not because I'm a bore but because:
1. I have a wife and two children and
2. I really enjoy diving and the beauty of life under the waves
Am I compromising my safety ?
I have just decided to get my own gear after 15 years of hire shops. I only dive in warm water and only recreational. I hold PADI Advanced OW and am lucky enough to earn enough to buy what I like. So I had decided to buy a Halcyon Pioneer rig.
Now I'm not so stupid as to think I was going to put it on and go out an do an OW, 30m, strong current & low viz. I intended to do some pool work and a number of easy shallow dives to start with.
But whats all this extra training bit and steep learning curve ?
I am the sort of holiday diver that takes the whole safety thing seriously - not because I'm a bore but because:
1. I have a wife and two children and
2. I really enjoy diving and the beauty of life under the waves
Am I compromising my safety ?
ElectricZombie
Contributor
mth71,
I'm an Instructor here at the University. I teach about 70 students per semester, all while using my BP. The students use ScubaPro Classic BCs. (The University is too cheap to buy new BCs) I have yet to run into any problems. Using a BP doesn't really change anything. All the drills and skills are the same.
Most of the students don't seem to even notice my BP, only 2 people have ever asked about it. I don't feel like it would be a good example for me to use anything else but a BP while teaching. I present the BP as a great alternative to jacket BCs, etc to those who express an interest.
Actually, one of my students bought a Halcyon 27lbs Pioneer setup as his first BC. (I explained all the benefits, etc and let him try out mine.) If I had not worn my BP while teaching, he might have never found out about BPs. So, as a result, I think he got a good head start in the right direction.
Since I have no stake or interest in selling gear, I always recommend a simple BP setup to those seeking advice. If they get a BP great, if they don't, that's fine too.
If I were you, I would go with the BP for teaching and your own diving.
I'm an Instructor here at the University. I teach about 70 students per semester, all while using my BP. The students use ScubaPro Classic BCs. (The University is too cheap to buy new BCs) I have yet to run into any problems. Using a BP doesn't really change anything. All the drills and skills are the same.
Most of the students don't seem to even notice my BP, only 2 people have ever asked about it. I don't feel like it would be a good example for me to use anything else but a BP while teaching. I present the BP as a great alternative to jacket BCs, etc to those who express an interest.
Actually, one of my students bought a Halcyon 27lbs Pioneer setup as his first BC. (I explained all the benefits, etc and let him try out mine.) If I had not worn my BP while teaching, he might have never found out about BPs. So, as a result, I think he got a good head start in the right direction.
Since I have no stake or interest in selling gear, I always recommend a simple BP setup to those seeking advice. If they get a BP great, if they don't, that's fine too.
If I were you, I would go with the BP for teaching and your own diving.
Well, I've got no idea about what will or won't be dominant gear in the future, but the part about a "learning curve" for a backplate is wrong, in my opinion.
My last dive with a jacket style BC was my final OW certification dive. The first dive after that, and every dive since, has been in a BP/Wing. I consider myself lucky to have found out what it was and had a chance to consider it before I sunk my $$ into something else. For me to say that I prefer the BP/Wing over the jacket is a bit like saying I'd prefer to play footsie with Cameron Diaz over Kelly Osbourne. Different strokes for different folks.
There is no learning curve that I'm aware of, unless you're referring to getting it adjusted right initially, which is not such a big deal. I just don't see the validity of the view stated or implied by some that a BP/Wing is something that a diver "graduates" to. There's no reason for a beginner to shy away from it if that's what they prefer. And who wants to buy all their gear twice?
kalvyn
Guest
I have to say that this surprises me, to be honest. I asked a lot of gear questions of my instructor, and he answered all of them. Also, he dove his own gear the entire class, even during the pool sessions. He has a back inflate BC, and explanied to me the difference between his and the rental one I was using. I like knowing I can ask someone with a lot more experience than I a gear question, and get an honest answer.
I did end up asking a lot of technical diving questions (mandatory decompression dives, tri-mix, nitrox etc) as well, and he honestly said he didn't have a lot of first-hand experience. He does not enjoy technical diving, but never said it wasn't for me, or would just blow off my questions. As a consequence, he will get my business for any further training I do that he can train me in.
Jimmie
leadweight
Contributor
IanH
I have never said that backplates are unsafe. They are safe, although all users of back inflation systems must get used to the way this class of bouyancy control devices behaves at the surface. That said, I now prefer back inflation. My issues with the BP are comfort and convenience, but lets not go there on this thread.
To get back to the subject of teaching diving, I probably would have not wanted to learn how to dive in a back inflation BC of any kind. It would just have introduced another variable that made things harder.
Not all new divers dive like a fish from day one. It took me a lot of trying before I got to the point that I really loved diving and felt comfortable under a wide variety of circumstances.
As for the wave of the future, it is anyone's guess. The industry is supporting tech as a means to sell more gear and services in the face of either a leveling off or reduction in the number of certifications.
I have never said that backplates are unsafe. They are safe, although all users of back inflation systems must get used to the way this class of bouyancy control devices behaves at the surface. That said, I now prefer back inflation. My issues with the BP are comfort and convenience, but lets not go there on this thread.
To get back to the subject of teaching diving, I probably would have not wanted to learn how to dive in a back inflation BC of any kind. It would just have introduced another variable that made things harder.
Not all new divers dive like a fish from day one. It took me a lot of trying before I got to the point that I really loved diving and felt comfortable under a wide variety of circumstances.
As for the wave of the future, it is anyone's guess. The industry is supporting tech as a means to sell more gear and services in the face of either a leveling off or reduction in the number of certifications.
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