Intro to Tech, to make a better Rec?

[PfcAJ]

Also, it's hard to justify to myself spending the money that GUE training costs when I post my experiences and thoughts based on interaction with GUEish divers and I only get told that I'm wrong but I don't get any information on what, specifically, is wrong about what I've said.

Ask someone that really gets it. If someone can't explain why they do what they do then they don't get it.

That exists everywhere.

 

[stuartv]

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[PfcAJ]

Thank you for that explanation. That makes sense. In that case, I do note that the instructor can observe analysis and marking correctly, no matter what the mix is. And in the specific example, I believe my friend was the only student, so I'm not sure how much "team" their was to gas match to or co-plan with. Regardless, if there were a team, I don't understand why the team wouldn't be allowed to plan a 30 foot shore dive using air. They can still analyze and mark their cylinders.

All that said, your explanation makes sense and I can see the importance of most of it (all but specifically REQUIRING 32%).

There was at least the student and the instructor.

Part of the purpose is to prepare for future dives. If 32% is the agreed upon gas and a diver decides to do what they want it impacts the team and the plan. The course sets standards and expectations for the future as well.

From the simplest dive to the most complex it's all the same: do what you agree to do.

 

[stuartv]

Deleted

 

[barth]

Good catch, I missed that. For class I think students should you the gas and equipment prescribed in the standards.

Post class, bugger off with that "nitrox for a 30ft dive" mess.

When I did fundamentals we did use air because there was a filling problem at the fillstation, we have to fill our tanks at another fill station where was only air.

There are more classes where they did use air for fundamentals. But my fundamentals were in 2008, maybe things has been changed.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I mean, I still want to take Fundies and look as good as the two I'm talking about, but dang! If I got yelled at for showing up to a 30 foot dive with Air in my tanks, I don't think I would handle it with nearly the grace that my friend did.

Maybe you should just do an intro to tech class with me? You get all of the info and you don't need to drink anything you don't want to.

 

[PfcAJ]

If you figured out best mix and it wasn't the best mix, then you didn't do it correctly. At least, by the way I was trained. My training is to include all the variables. Maybe I am missing something. What is a variable that would make a Best Mix not be the best mix?

I would not be upset at all if someone I want to dive with places a different priority on standard gases than I do. As long as they don't result in a really big increase in my planned deco obligation (which I don't believe they ever would). Just don't wait until we've agreed on a plan and everyone else on the team has dropped off their tanks to be filled to throw in a change to standard gases.

I'm not really sure what you were trying to say in the last sentence. But, I don't have a major aversion to standard gases. For any given dive, the Best Mix is not going to be THAT much different. So, if someone wants to use standard gases, I'm not going to fuss much. What I have an aversion to is blind adherence and thoughtlessness - e.g. choosing gases for a dive simply because it's what the table says for the depth range you're planning to be in, versus a thoughtful process of figuring out for yourself what the best gases are. For bottom gas, it generally doesn't seem to make much difference. Where I personally have seen the biggest differences is when figuring out what deco gases to use. Being able to use any mix I want lets me optimize my choices based on SAC and cylinder sizes, resulting in, sometimes, a big difference in what I can do based on how much deco I'm planning for. E.g. when I dived the Oriskany a couple of weeks ago, being able to choose EAN70 for my deco gas, instead of 50% or 100%, worked out pretty darn well with respect to the number and size of cylinders I had to carry and the total runtime versus the amount of bottom time I got.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into even more of a Standard Gases versus Best Mix debate than it has already become. That was never really my point. My point was sharing a story I personally experienced, today, where a GUE diver was hosing up a team plan because he suddenly, unilaterally decided to dive Standard Gases, instead of using the plan that has been in place for months. A story that adds reinforcement to a perception (true or not - it's MY perception, based on MY experiences) that GUE produces some divers who follow rote, instead of thinking for themselves and being adaptable to any situation, and that the culture of GUE is partly responsible for that.

Other variables to chosing mix include things like deco understanding (you'll have a good handle on your deco obligation and impacts to changes on the dive on that obligation if your gases are always the same), bottle marking (in gue land 70 is always 50%. Always. Go out on any dive boat and see the variation with that) ease of mixing (esp if there's banked 32%). You're only thinking in terms of shortest deco. There's more to it than that.

I specifically do NOT want a whole fleet of gases. It would totally undermine the idea of constant bottle marking, easily remembered MODs, and varying ENDs.

I keep 4 bottom gases on hand and 4 deco gases. The end. I always know the MOD off hand, I always understand the deco relationship, I have tables ready to go for all of those gases. No extra steps required. It's simple and streamlined on the surface and in my estimation reduces the possibility for error by reduction of choices. Sign me up for 10mins extra deco I don't care.

Anyways, I do agree that gue has a tendency to produce rote divers. That's a big gripe of mine. But if you're not going to think for yourself, sticking to the prescribed methods work pretty darn well. For me, I've had lots of time to think about it and prefer the standard methods, and I will never balk at someone who wants to keep it simple and stick with their training.

 

[PfcAJ]

When I did fundamentals we did use air because there was a filling problem at the fillstation, we have to fill our tanks at another fill station where was only air.

There are more classes where they did use air for fundamentals. But my fundamentals were in 2008, maybe things has been changed.

Seems fine to me for everyone is on the same page.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I'm not a gue instructor, so let's make sure everyone knows that.

I knew I liked you for some reason.

 

[KevinNM]

Some people like to dive (or sleep) instead of mixing gasses. It's a lot easier and quicker to fill your tank with the standard mix you want from the bank instead of mixing your "best" mix. Among other things it also means you aren't putting 100% in every tank you have.