Interesting approach to automatic Buoyancy at DEMA

[L13]

Okay, now I'm more confused on how it works. I'll go off and research that later.

It has a computer/controller on a cable looks like a lot like rebreathers do. You push a button to add or remove water.

 

[L13]

Where did i say that?

here:

If you're correctly weighted, you don't just shoot up like a bottle rocket when you release your weights. And it might not be enough to keep someone afloat who is in serious trouble.

Depends how much (in kgs/lbs) lift you have. If you're just slightly positively buoyant you still could become submerged if there's current or waves.

How much weight did you drop. That is how positive you are.

Yes, obviously my concern is safety, whose isn't? What or who are you debating?

If your concern is safety, why are you bringing up the clientele vs. BP/W. Safe is safe, regardless of clientele. I have heard many BP/W users say they wish they had started with it. They are perfectly safe for beginners. None think they have compromised safety. The same thing is true for this system.

I'm debating you, because you are concluding it is unsafe due to misconceptions. Just because it isn't what you are used to, doesn't make it unsafe.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

here:




How much weight did you drop. That is how positive you are.


If your concern is safety, why are you bringing up the clientele vs. BP/W. Safe is safe, regardless of clientele. I have heard many BP/W users say they wish they had started with it. They are perfectly safe for beginners. None think they have compromised safety. The same thing is true for this system.

I'm debating you, because you are concluding it is unsafe due to misconceptions. Just because it isn't what you are used to, doesn't make it unsafe.

Huh? Yeah, you would never want to shoot up, and you don't, if you're weighted correctly.

Yes, the lead PLUS the lift from your BCD...

And no, safety also relies on training. Even the safest gear doesn't help if you're not trained on it.

What misconceptions exactly? Could you please specify?

 

[L13]

Huh? Yeah, you would never want to shoot up, and you don't, if you're weighted correctly.

Then what was the point of your statement?
Have you taken the rescue class? You don't add air to your or the victims BC on the way up, you vent it, one less thing to worry about on this system. Once on the surface, you dump weight to establish more positive buoyancy.

Yes, the lead PLUS the lift from your BCD...

Or pumped down tank, You've got time to run the pump now. Or inflate the vest that is part of the system for surface buoyancy.

And no, safety also relies on training. Even the safest gear doesn't help if you're not trained on it.

Exactly. If you are properly trained on this system, it is not unsafe. It is not inherently unsafe. It is not inherently harder to be trained on. However it does require training you don't have.

What misconceptions exactly? Could you please specify?

All the ones I've been point out so far, lol.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It has a computer/controller on a cable looks like a lot like rebreathers do. You push a button to add or remove water.

so it basically reduces the lead required on a dive. Got it.

 

[inquis]

so it basically reduces the lead required on a dive. Got it.

The main point is it eliminates the change in buoyancy due to significant depth changes; i.e., where someone would normally add or vent their wing.

Slightly less lead (my guess is around 8 pounds) is a minor benefit, though probably appreciated when climbing a boat ladder.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Then what was the point of your statement?
Have you taken the rescue class? You don't add air to your or the victims BC on the way up, you vent it, one less thing to worry about on this system. Once on the surface, you dump weight to establish more positive buoyancy.


Or pumped down tank, You've got time to run the pump now. Or inflate the vest that is part of the system for surface buoyancy.


Exactly. If you are properly trained on this system, it is not unsafe. It is not inherently unsafe. It is not inherently harder to be trained on. However it does require training you don't have.


All the ones I've been point out so far, lol.

Point of it is: You add air to keep an unconscious person from drowning and to keep a comfortable position. Also, in the case of an emergency, you ditch the weight underwater, not when you already reached the surface.

And what vest? The point of that system is that you don't have to wear a vest?

I'm not saying that this system is stupid or doesn't work, they already proved the opposite. But i'm still skeptical about the safety and reliability. Again, an electrical system, a high pressure pump and valves with seawater and other contaminants is a challenge maintenance wise.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The main point is it eliminates the change in buoyancy due to significant depth changes; i.e., where someone would normally add or vent their wing.

Most people are vacation divers who I would imagine due to a lack of skill would be the target market. But given that most pretty fish diving (my favorite) is rather shallow, unless they are heavily overweighted, it isn't that great of a swing. It sounds like a diminished return to the target market. I'm rather retentive about weighting, but that's @The Chairman's fault when he discussed using just the lungs to ascend and descend. I gave it a shot in a pool and was able to do that when I really dialed in my weight. For warm water pretty fish diving, I hardly use my wing.

Slightly less lead (my guess is around 8 pounds) is a minor benefit, though probably appreciated when climbing a boat ladder.

Every bit helps, but I think divers should figure out how much weight do they really need. When I was in Belize, I got my dive buddy to drop 16 lbs. She was very good heavy, so every time she stopped finning, she'd go vertical. Most of the energy expended during her frog kick was to get her back to horizontal and then propel her forward. At the safety stop, I held onto here, removed one of her ditchable weight pockets, had her dump some gas from her wing, and then let go. Back on board, I asked the dive guide to help her with her weighting. His eyes got pretty wide when he saw how much weight she had.

 

[L13]

Point of it is: You add air to keep an unconscious person from drowning and to keep a comfortable position. Also, in the case of an emergency, you ditch the weight underwater, not when you already reached the surface.

You obviously have not taken a rescue class, or at least not recently. To do it correctly, you ditch the weight at the surface. Ditching weight by anyone while submerged is a last choice option.

And what vest? The point of that system is that you don't have to wear a vest?

There is a small snorkel vest like component that is not normally used, but available for emergency use on the surface (or at least there was on one of the early ones I saw data on).

I'm not saying that this system is stupid or doesn't work, they already proved the opposite. But i'm still skeptical about the safety and reliability. Again, an electrical system, a high pressure pump and valves with seawater and other contaminants is a challenge maintenance wise.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

You obviously have not taken a rescue class, or at least not recently. To do it correctly, you ditch the weight at the surface. Ditching weight by anyone while submerged is a last choice option.


There is a small snorkel vest like component that is not normally used, but available for emergency use on the surface (or at least there was on one of the early ones I saw data on).

I don't know what rescue class you took, but it has been taught to me that, while it's an absolute last-resort solution, you should ditch your weight if you feel you'll become unconscious. Again, better bent than drowned. But i'm always open for advice!

But back to topic:
I can't find any flotation device on this system other than the cylinder. The "jetpack", as they call it, appears to be simply a backplate with the battery and the pump, nothing else.
I'm also concerned about sustainability: a properly maintained Aluminium or Steel cylinder can easily last several decades, whereas carbon fibre has its limitations regarding service life, not to mention the membrane that expands and contracts every dive.