Integrated weights?

[InTheDrink]

Yeah, I'm kinda pis**ed that I got an integrated now. It was before I actively engaged with this board and actually had a place to ask questions. Like you mention rstofer, another downside with integrated is the limited space in your pockets, at least in my Dragon. The weights can use up a lot of the space so a spare mask, reel, rattle, smb, slate, etc. suddenly become fairly tricky to extract. Man, I wish I had been on this board before I got (nearly) everything. I
still love my Stinger however . If anyone has a great reason why it's crap - please, be compassionate and don't tell me

I am for now then diving with my Dragon but without the bags. I'm sure I can dream up a good story about why they're no longer there (ripped out by a pair of mating morays?), but if anyone has any inspiration, please feel free...

 

[Slonda828]

Yeah, I'm kinda pis**ed that I got an integrated now. It was before I actively engaged with this board and actually had a place to ask questions. Like you mention rstofer, another downside with integrated is the limited space in your pockets, at least in my Dragon. The weights can use up a lot of the space so a spare mask, reel, rattle, smb, slate, etc. suddenly become fairly tricky to extract. Man, I wish I had been on this board before I got (nearly) everything. I
still love my Stinger however . If anyone has a great reason why it's crap - please, be compassionate and don't tell me

I am for now then diving with my Dragon but without the bags. I'm sure I can dream up a good story about why they're no longer there (ripped out by a pair of mating morays?), but if anyone has any inspiration, please feel free...

J,

You seem like a smart cookie, and you've gotten great advice from some very well educated people. The only thing I would add to this is to figure out what kind of diving you are really doing, and then make your decision.

Me, for example, when I'm doing the kind of diving where I think I may remotely have the chance of taking my weight integrated BC off, like when helping out at the shop, I use a weight belt. That gets rid of "floaty" syndrome when trying to demonstrate skills to a high degree of quality.

When I'm just cruising along at 30 feet on my time, looking at fish, I don't use a weight belt, my backplate, tank selection, and the weight of my regs, knife, and light make up my weight. I'm not going to get tangled in water that open, and if I do, I can squeeze the tank with my legs when I take it off and fix the problem, then put the BC back on. If I float away by some miracle (which would make me an idiot) then I only float up maybe 20 feet.

If I'm diving to 120 feet, then I wear a weight belt. I use a lighter tank and or a lighter backplate as to keep more of the lead on my body. That way, if things go south, I have enough lead on my physical body worse case scenario.

When I'm diving vintage equipment, I have to be perfect on my weight because I don't use a BC. In that case, the weight required for me to be neutrally buoyant minus the tank weight is on my belt. That would leave me about 5 lbs (give or take) light if I had to take off my gear at the beginning of a dive. For me, having done lung volume work (thanks thalassamania) I know I can compensate for 5 lbs of weight with my lungs. I work the problem, put the rig back on and drive on. I also dive a higher density wetsuit to avoid buoyancy swing.

Sorry if I went on a diatribe, but this took me forever to figure out, so hopefully it helps you a little bit. When I started making the effort to practice and get better (which I know you do with drills and such), I went from diving with 12 pounds of lead to 4, then finally to 1. I never realized how overweighted I was until I really practiced it.

 

[Slonda828]

Precisely right. When practising my drill I ended up inverted, trying to wrap one arm around a BC strap to stabilise myself. It basically takes one arm and hand out of action and I still needed to fin down. As you end up breathing hard you end up more buoyant, compounding the problem. This is why I posted in the first place: it seems to me that having all the negativity in your BC and all the buoyancy in yourself effectively means you need to stay one unit. Which limits your ability to completely remove your BC and even partially will destabilise you.

This may have been mentioned, and forgive me if I'm repeating, but when you get out of your BC, you should swing it round in front of you and stick the tank between your legs, kind of like you are in the fetal position and the tank is in a leg lock. That is a terrible explanation, but hopefully it paints a decent, albeit funny picture. This will feel weird, but it will keep the buoyant area and your body generally in some semblance of a line, which is not perfect, but more stable than any other way I have found of doing it. It also places the soft parts of your BC in a spot where you can look directly down on them and at your tank valve and regs. If you've gotten fouled, then it's a good idea to check those two items before driving on anyway. Plus this way, BOTH your arms are free to hack, slash, or make obscene gestures in the throes of frustration.

 

[Slonda828]

That makes me feel a whole lot better. Velcro AND a bit of plastic

I used to own an Aqualung Malibu. The integrated weights were only held on by velcro.

Losing,say,6 pounds of weight at depth could really spoil your day if you were near an NDL when it happened. Just seems like a danger that is easily avoided.

I'm not trying to sharpshoot you, but depending on your lung capacity you could control most of this with your breathing long enough to ascend at a proper rate, make a safety stop, and surface safely. I do agree though that if you feel it is a personal risk, then why do it. I've never had a weight come out, because I only dive good gear, and I do pre-dive checks and inspections on all my gear every single time. I've seen stainless steel weight buckles become ineffective because the webbing was so worn out. I think you and I would both agree that quality, inspected gear is pretty safe.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Quick question: when places (websites or dive shops) advertise an integrated weight system with a BCD, does this generally mean the weights are included, or does it just mean there's the pockets for them.

Personally, I require a lot of weight: salt water, 7mm wetsuit, occasionally aluminum tanks (although I try to avoid) and being fairly heavy all adds up. And the 40lb weight belt (and I felt underweight) I had to wear the one time I rented a non-integrated BCD was enough to make this an essential feature when I buy a BCD.

 

[InTheDrink]

Canuck, a) re are weights included: no. They're simply detachable pockets that clip (in my Dragon's case at least) into your BC.

One point I neglected to mention but which you alluded to: I used to get horrible pain in my lower back towards then end of a dive when wearing a weight belt. But I was probably wearing too much weight then. And I was probably doing another hundred things wrong contributing to it. But I like the idea of distributing between integrated and belt (or harness should I ever get around to buying one).

Slonda, yes, it was indeed an amusing picture you conjured up. I've seen it done once or twice and I'll ask my buddy to demonstrate it next time he's around. But in the meantime I'll focus on visualising a foetus with a leg lock around a tank I see that all the time when I'm out

Also agreed re belt or pockets. Horses for courses etc. but never say never and I sometimes appear to have a god given gift for tangling myself. I swear it couldn't be taught a true natural (smb mainly although I like to mix it up and do smb/second stage hose). So I think I will always wear some weight on my body from now on. Doesn't seem to much in the way of down sides except the slight inconvenience of an extra piece of kit. And hopefully no lower back pain.

 

[Sas]

Quick question: when places (websites or dive shops) advertise an integrated weight system with a BCD, does this generally mean the weights are included, or does it just mean there's the pockets for them.

Weights have never been included, from what I have seen. However, YMMV depending on where you are, but I doubt that those advertisements include weight unless stated specifically.

Personally, I require a lot of weight: salt water, 7mm wetsuit, occasionally aluminum tanks (although I try to avoid) and being fairly heavy all adds up. And the 40lb weight belt (and I felt underweight) I had to wear the one time I rented a non-integrated BCD was enough to make this an essential feature when I buy a BCD.

Seeing as you are new to diving, you will probably be able to drop a fair bit? Have you done a proper weight check? Apologies if you have already done all this, but the vast majority of OW divers I see, start with way too much weight. I started at 32lb+ with 12L steel tank/7mm wetsuit but now can get away with 22lb with that set up. And I haven't been diving that long, so most people can start dropping weight fairly quickly.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Weights have never been included, from what I have seen. However, YMMV depending on where you are, but I doubt that those advertisements include weight unless stated specifically.

Okay thanks. What's weird though is on most of the big scuba sites (I'll probably buy the weights locally, just using the sites as kind of a price guide) I never see any weights sold that look like they belong in the BCD. Are the weight pockets the same size with the same clip across companies?

Seeing as you are new to diving, you will probably be able to drop a fair bit? Have you done a proper weight check? Apologies if you have already done all this, but the vast majority of OW divers I see, start with way too much weight. I started at 32lb+ with 12L steel tank/7mm wetsuit but now can get away with 22lb with that set up. And I haven't been diving that long, so most people can start dropping weight fairly quickly.

I sort of did a weight check during my OW, but I don't believe I'm carrying too much weight, if anything I think it was too light. On one dive which was incredibly shallow (mostly only like 10 -15 feet deep) I was basically holding down the release on my BCD completely and I was still floating towards the surface: until I hit past 15 feet I just couldn't get neutrally or negatively bouyant: I basically kept myself from floating to the surface by using my fins to kick towards the bottom (of course this wastes energy since in addition to moving yourself forward, you're having to kick to counter your positive buoyancy. This was the time I had aluminum tanks (always steel before) so it threw a wrench into the weighting.

But I also need to start eating better, one of the easiest ways I could reduce the amount of weight I need to dive with would be to reduce my own weight.

 

[Sas]

Okay thanks. What's weird though is on most of the big scuba sites (I'll probably buy the weights locally, just using the sites as kind of a price guide) I never see any weights sold that look like they belong in the BCD. Are the weight pockets the same size with the same clip across companies?

No they are all different. I believe this is so if you need a new pocket you can only order one through them. But perhaps I am too cynical My weights are varying types and varying sizes, I tend to mix and match a bit. Some are threaded, some are not. I have 0.5kg, 1kg, 3lb and 6lb weights, and this seems to be enough these days to use all kinds of weight variations depending on my setup.

I sort of did a weight check during my OW, but I don't believe I'm carrying too much weight, if anything I think it was too light. On one dive which was incredibly shallow (mostly only like 10 -15 feet deep) I was basically holding down the release on my BCD completely and I was still floating towards the surface: until I hit past 15 feet I just couldn't get neutrally or negatively bouyant: I basically kept myself from floating to the surface by using my fins to kick towards the bottom (of course this wastes energy since in addition to moving yourself forward, you're having to kick to counter your positive buoyancy. This was the time I had aluminum tanks (always steel before) so it threw a wrench into the weighting.

But I also need to start eating better, one of the easiest ways I could reduce the amount of weight I need to dive with would be to reduce my own weight.

Fair enough! I did weight checks in OW (kinda) but was always finning slightly, and also holding my breathe unconsciously so I ended up quite overweighted. I think a lot of people are similar. But if you find yourself floating up it sounds like you are underweighted. Sometimes I add an extra 2lb or so when I dive shallow as often the last bit of the dive is spent at around 10ft, and I might only have 20-30bar left. Aluminium tanks are a pain I find, I hate having to wear the extra weight, and also the large buoyancy change with them. Luckily, locally steel is more common and most rental tanks are steel. Doesn't seem to be this way in other places though.

 

[imasinker]

I was diving this summer on a wreck up in Tobermory. I was looking at a set of controls at the rear near the line when suddenly a zeagle weight puch dropped past me near smacking me in the head. Someone on the line ascending had accidently dropped a weight pouch. I picked up the weight pouch and then noticed my dive buddy swim to me and grab me thinking I was about to pop to the surface. It was funny but thinking about his actions told me that this is something people are aware of. He was right there and that was good. Yes i agree there can be a problem here. There are solutions as my buddy so well proved. Still there are IMHO a chance for a bad situation in such cases. Good post!