Integrated Air Source vs. Octo

[ZzzKing]

So for those with Air-2 type secondaries, what is the recommended primary hose length?

I have the Atomic SS1 and swapped the stock hose on my Z2 for a 5' model.

Excellent work on the limerics, guys!

My buddy, she ran low on air,
and grab my primary she dared,
If i'd watched her gauge,
we'd have avoided this rage,
and not needed our breathing to share.

 

[Scubakevdm]

If all folks went diving the same,
I could prescribe you this gear without shame.
But because we do not,
These discussions get hot,
And the tek guys say air 2's are lame.

So for those with Air-2 type secondaries, what is the recommended primary hose length?

I haven't ever had any trouble with a regular old standard issue short hose. I'm always less than an arm's length away from an OOA guy anyway, because I'm clamped onto his shoulder strap pretty tightly.

 

[tjmills]

When breathing from an Air2, you're essentially breathing and venting from the same device. When I use a regular second stage, I can hold the inflator above my head/BC to make it as efficient as possible without that affecting my breathing. While using an Air2, I'd have to take the reg out of my mouth to elevate the manual dump above my head. Why complicate things? Of course, if you're in the habit of dumping from a different valve, that's not a major issue.

Why would you be trying to take the air2 out of your mouth and elevating to dump your BC anyway? All you have to do is pull on the hose and it dumps air. Most all alternate air devices that I know of are of this design. I haven't lifted my hose to manually deflate since I first got certified on a really cheap rental.

I do happen to one of those people with the Air2 and I like it and even prefer it because I always know where it is. I do recommend practice with it and also using it every once in awhile just to stay in practice....as you should do with most skills.

 

[divecon15]

I got to msg #30 and nobody had stated a very obvious point. When someone inexperianced is in an out of air emergency the first thing they are going to do is grab the first reg that they see and guess where that is? Thats right kids-in YOUR mouth that you are using. They won't be nice about it they are just going to grab and rip it out of their mouth and shove it in theirs, nomater where you were are in your beathing cycle.
Now in that situation I love knowing that my Atomis SS1 is right there at the end of my inflator hose (which is usually in my left hand because that is where I like to rest my hand) and all I have to do is put it in my mouth and purge, breath and then get a PANICED diver under control.
When I was in my Stress & Rescue course and my Divecon class I had an instructor that beat the sh** out of me in this sort of thing. After a while everything became second nature to me and it got to the point where he could no long screw with me because by the time he had MY primary in his mouth I had my Air2 and then later my SS1 in my mouth because.....I ALWAYS KNEW WHERE IT WAS!
I have seen more than one student fumble around trying to find his octo even when he/she knew that they were going to be using it in that dive and they mad sure they had it attached to their BC and I had to give them MY Primary.
SSI encouraged their instructors to pass their primary reg as that is what the student will be looking and and it may have a calming effect. Also no mater what configuation you have being consistant with passing your primary then it is up to you (the calm one) to find and use your octo... and if it is at the end of your inflator hose.... enought said
As far as what kind? I started on an AIR2 and then last summer as I was doing more teaching and having to use my octo alot swiched to an Atomic SS1 which is the best inflator/octo on the market. I would highly recommend it.

Brent
SSI AI15902

 

[JustinW]

Every one of the AIR II bashing posts I have read here seem to be based in ignorance. They don't know how to dump, mischaracterizations of the operation of the equipment, emptily claim its "not good enough"

-Understand you don't vent out of your inflator (you can but just don't need to)
-Understand the recall
-Understand what would really happen in a failure (1 in 4 air sources fail) This shouldn't be a problem, if you can't handle a failure of this type you are diving over your head.
-Use and learn how to use a product before blindly bashing it.

Neither system is God's gift to man, but either system can be man's gift to another man without air. For those that dislike the air2, I am curious to know if your affinity would change if you ran out of air. I suspect very much that in an OOA situation even the most venomous here would love it.

 

[dherbman]

Please somebody, explain to me why anyone would consider using an Air2 as your alternative/backup air supply? It just seems soooo well...ridiculous!

I have a really hard time understanding why you wouldn't by two high quality secondaries; sling the secondary around your neck with a bungee and the other as your primary. You have reduced the effect/seriousness of any inflator/backup failures, it's out of the way and it is easier to reach (below your chin!).

I'm not DIR, but it seems like a no brainer....Or have I missed something?

The configuration of a bungied secondary and primary on long hose take practice to deploy safely and efficiently. How many recreational divers practice BOW skills after certification?

It also takes a proper configuration, which means losing any clutter that could affect deployment, such as snorkle, BC pockets and crap dangling from D rings. Routing, stowing and deploying take practice.

It's been pointed out several times already, but the main advantage of the AIRII is convenience. "It's just there and I don't have to think about it." I think that's a good enough reason for recreational divers who never venture into caverns, penetrate wrecks or any other type of overhead, but for anyone who may want to, it's not safe for your buddy.

Dumping air has been mentioned as being awkard with an AIRII in your mouth, but adding air to your BC is quite often required to get yourself and the OOA diver off the bottom. It's awkward when compared to using a standard inflator.

With all the advantages I can see of a long hose config, I don't think that the majority of rec divers are ready for the commitment it takes to safely and efficiently deploy one. It's more about the diver than the gear.

 

[TSandM]

Actually, though, the 40" hose run under the arm isn't hard to route or hard to deploy -- it probably doesn't even require jettisoning the snorkel. Add the bungied secondary and you have a pretty easy configuration to manage, which is compatible with any other gear, one which can be lent to someone else, and which presents NO issues regarding buoyancy control in an emergency.

I don't think the Air2 is the spawn of the devil. But I think you can give yourself the same advantages without any of the disadvantages. And I DID have an Air2, and I DID practice with it, and that's part of why I switched.

 

[PaulChristenson]

When I researched Air2 as an option...I already had a DiveAlert unit on my BCD

Checking with DiveAlert...I was strongly discouraged from having my DiveAlert inline with an AIR2 device...something about having too many connection points...so...long story short I got an Octo

What is interesting though...there is nothing on their website to that effect...this was done via email

Paul in VT

 

[tjmills]

Actually, though, the 40" hose run under the arm isn't hard to route or hard to deploy -- it probably doesn't even require jettisoning the snorkel. Add the bungied secondary and you have a pretty easy configuration to manage, which is compatible with any other gear, one which can be lent to someone else, and which presents NO issues regarding buoyancy control in an emergency.

I don't think the Air2 is the spawn of the devil. But I think you can give yourself the same advantages without any of the disadvantages. And I DID have an Air2, and I DID practice with it, and that's part of why I switched.

I think that is a fair assessment. I don't agree with it for my diving which is mostly tropical and non technical but I do respect that you tried and made your decision. You made your decision based upon your own practices and environments. To me, I don't see any disadvantages that you speak of and my confidence in the system and the 911 procedure is much more comfortable for me rather than an separate octo. I am also much more confident having the diver squarly by the vest in an OOA situation where they can see me and I can see them. In a technical environment I may or may not change my mind but I reserve that for when and if I do this type of diving.

 

[billeelou]

When I:11doh: posted my, NO OCTO thread a month ago, there was more wailing and gnashing of teeth!!!

As I pointed out, the Octo is gradually losing favor as the ONLY safe way to dive...My Safe 2nd and Pony bottle are more than enough in almost every situation...But I also own a setup with Octo for those recreational dives where I don't know anyone....

but I am missing the "I won't ever dive with you". posts that flowed from the keyboards the last time