Instructors - A Little Advice From Your Hindsight?

[WB2GLP]

I'm in the process of deciding on which agency to use to complete my instructor cert. Assuming apples are apples when it comes to the final product (don't even want to start that thread), once I have that certification, what is the continued commitment to the agency? Basically, what's the total cost of ownership? Down the road, what is the financial relationship between me and the agency?

Let's assume that I just opened a shop and I will hang the agency shingle on my door and logo on my business cards. Joe Nudiver just walked into my shop and wants lessons. I tell him the total cost and he completes the course. What will the agency expect from me at this point; from the door shingle to the certification card?

I'm trying to look at the big picture from the perspective of each agency, but I don't find too much of that info out in the open. Feel free to PM me if you would rather not air any dirty laundry on SB. I appreciate your 20/20 vision if you've been down this road before.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Not sure what you are asking as it varies from agency to agency. With us - SEI Diving - you pay your dues every year, buy your student materials as you need them, send in the cost of processing the card, and keep your insurance current as well. That's it. And your assuming "apples are apples" is something I'd not want to do because they simply are not.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Money is the root of all *** **** ***** (insert whatever)

Compared to PADI I can't imagine another agency costing more for annual dues.

Compared to PADI I can't imagine another agency's marketing does as much of the bush beating.

 

[explorer08]

With PADI the system is similar to what Jim described about SEI.
And he is true an apple is not simply an apple. You have to compare what you will get for your money and than you have to decide what is important for you.

For example, I can’t imagine that any other agency is investing as much money in advertising, particularly in advertising outside the diving community, than PADI does. Therefore PADI is a well renowned name even to non-divers. Just because of that, IMHO there is no way around PADI if you want to earn money with diving.

Also it is important where you are living and teaching. If you are living somewhere in the states and your customers are usually locals, its ok if your agency does deliver their training materials in English only. But if you are working at a holiday destination, situation may change. Take me for example. I am working at a holiday destination in Europe. Our customers are from all over the world. For those from overseas English is usually the language of choice as well. But if they are from somewhere in Europe, with its babylonic multitude of languages, or from Russia, their English is often very basic only. Thanks PADI no problem. Basic English is ok, for the rest I have my DVD’s in their native language and they get their manuals in their native languages. Also they can do their exams in their native language. And I don’t know any other agency than PADI which is supporting their members with such a multitude of training materials in so many different languages.

So, although I don’t agree with them in every point, PADI is the agency of choice for me.
If your demands are different, your decision may be a different one as well.

 

[SeaCobra]

Yes PADI does do a bit more marketing, NAUI is getting better, yet many other agencies are surviving well. The new guy walking in the door does not know PADI or NAUI from PDQ or XYZ, it is your business and you need to market what you provide.

As far as costs, I am only a NAUI Course Director, so those are the only numbers I have accurate knowledge of:

Annual Instructor dues = $145 US
NAUI Instructor Insurance (including tec endorsement) = $545
Student registration (depends on your buying level) = $18

Now, also look at total cost for getting your Instructor card. When completing a NAUI ITC, with an average cost of $2,500 in my area, you are a complete instructor. Able to teach all core courses and specialties, including Nitrox, Rescue, First Aid & CPR, etc. You can also teach Leadership of Assistant Instructor and Divemaster without having to go back to your agency for additional certs.

The only things you cannot teach out of the gate are the high leadership; Instructor Trainer and Course Director and the Tech Stuff. Do not expect the agency to be a magician for you, but rather look at the agency to provide high standards and the business tools you need.

One LDS I worked for got more inquiries from one agency website than another, yet they were pretty poor on converting phone calls to customers. Another LDS was excellent at that and the business made the difference, not the agency.

Feel free to PM me for more, I can give you my cell number to chat. Also will be at the Tom's River Flea market on 2/20.

Best of luck,

Jeff

 

[oly5050user]

I have taught for NASDS, SSI and now PADI...If you want to be marketable and have the best chance to actually make a bit of money so that you can pay your dues and insurance without going into your pocket,go with PADI.
I have to disagree with Seacobra about how someone walking in the door knows nothing about agencies. I have had people come in and ask if they can get their "PADI' card here. For an instructor being a PADI instructor gives you more chances to find a LDS to work with if that is what you wish to do. If you want to go independent you can also. The costs involved are not so different from the other agencies. An IDC/IE can run about $1,200-$1,600. The IE is $400.?? Once you get your OWSI you can teach from entry level to Divemaster..Insurance can be gotten from any insurance provider,so insurance costs stay the same as any other agency. Agency annual dues to PADI run $170.Certification fees for your students run about the same as everyone elses. One thing I like about PADI at the instructor level is when you do your IE, the examiner from PADI headquaters,does NOT know you,so when you pass the IE you passed it on your merits. Unlike another agency,to be unnamed here,so as not to start a war,you pay your money to the Course Director/Instr trainer etc, and here is your card.I know for a fact that happens at times.A former DM student I had,who had such a difficult time understanding the materials,because he never studied, had issues with inwater skills, I dropped him after 3 sessions of course work and refunded his money. He went to Dominican Republic with only a rescue certification for a 1 week vacation and after paying $500. to a Cd/Instr.Trainer ,he is an instructor.The same person running the course was the "examiner"..No independent evaluator involved..So in my eyes he is a "paper instr" only..He wanted a card to say he is an instructor and he got it.
At the end of a day, its the instructor who teaches people, not the agency..

 

[japan-diver]

As others have stated all agencies are not equal. As a shop owner the costs of being one over the other can be huge. Also as someone who has been in this industry full time for over 16 years I can attest to you do not have to be PADI to make money. PADI does market more than any other agency but unless you are a 5 star center they do not do a good job of sending that customer to you as an instructor. Any decent instructor/shop owner can change that customer that walks in the door and says 'I want a PADI course" to any agency that shop/instructor happens to teach. Making money in scuba is more about marketing yourself and your skills as an instructor than what 3-4 letters are on the cert card you give out.

And the bit about bad instructors slipping though happens in all agencies including PADI - the IE system with PADI has its own faults as do other agencies systems- none of them are perfect or every instructor would be great and we all know this is not true. Pick an agency based on which one fits your teaching style and philosophy.

 

[explorer08]

I have to disagree with Seacobra about how someone walking in the door knows nothing about agencies. I have had people come in and ask if they can get their "PADI' card here. For an instructor being a PADI instructor gives you more chances to find a LDS to work with if that is what you wish to do. If you want to go independent you can also.

That is my experience as well. People know the brand PADI, even if they are non-divers. They know it from TV, they know it from advertisements in non diving related magazines and they know it from holiday destinations where they have seen the name at every dive centre on the street. And they come into the shop and ask for it or at least they come in and tell you that they have seen the name on the front of your shop and they did come in, because they know it.

In reverse I never have seen a non-diver coming in and asking for any agency other than PADI. That only happens with con-ed customers who did their entry level certification with another agency. But again PADI is the winner of the game, just because the plain number of certifications given by them. So naturally most con-ed customers entry level certification is PADI as well. And therefore any new customer PADI brought into the game, no matter if it is in Japan or on Hawai or on the Maledive islands, is a potential customer for me as well. May be his next holidays will bring him to my area and than he may see the renowned name as well. And what do you assume, where will he go, to dive centre A offering agency X or to dive centre B offering the renowned brand from his previous course?

Now, also look at total cost for getting your Instructor card. When completing a NAUI ITC, with an average cost of $2,500 in my area, you are a complete instructor. Able to teach all core courses and specialties, including Nitrox, Rescue, First Aid & CPR, etc. You can also teach Leadership of Assistant Instructor and Divemaster without having to go back to your agency for additional certs.

And here we have a good example, that you have to make your own decision about what you see as a value or a benefit as well, because what a value or a benefit is, is questionable as well.
I am not familiar with the cost situation in the states, so with regards to that others may give their input.
But here it is offered as a benefit, that a new certified instructor is entitled (I don’t use the term “able” intentionally) to teach all core courses and specialties, including Nitrox, Rescue, First Aid & CPR, etc. and Leadership of Assistant Instructor and Divemaster without having to go back to your agency for additional certs.

Now I ask, is that really a benefit or a value?

I know agencies where you need a special license for every diver level. IMHO that is nonsense as well. If they feel that their entry level instructors are not qualified to teach an advanced class or a rescue class, they should not call them instructors.

On the other hand IMHO some differentiations make sense. So i.e. because First Aid & CPR are not specific diving related, for me it makes sense to require a separate license. And because you need First Aid & CPR knowledge for rescue classes, it makes sense to require a First Aid & CPR instructor license as prerequisite for a diving instructor course. Also, as long as you get a special C-Card for every specialty, it makes sense to require a special license for every instructor specialty, particularly because specialty’s require special knowledge and you can’t cover everything in one instructor course. Otherwise, how long would it last?:headscratch:

And last but not least, does it really make sense to have new certified instructors conduct leadership level courses?
I know at the divemaster level my agency does that too. But this is one of those points, I don’t agree with them. IMHO leadership level training requires at least one thing, no new certified instructor can have – experience.
So why not being stringent? They promote divemaster as the entry level to leadership, so they should leave divemaster training to those qualified for leadership training as well. It is not a guarantee for a better training, but at least chances are that it will increase the quality.

 

[WB2GLP]

Thanks for all the responses. After reading everything here, I have a much better idea of what to expect after the dust (or silt) settles.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you want to look at actual costs. My instructor dues are $100 because I pay them early. regular is $150. Insurance through witherspoon is 517 a yr because I took the 3 yr option. Full set of instructor materials for SEI is 220 for everything including nitrox IM. It is not required though so if you decide not to offer nitrox right away you can save 40 bucks. You can teach all courses through DM/AI. There are qualifications for nitrox, search and recovery (we are revising that course now in fact and I'm involved with that), and experience requirements for drysuit, full face mask, and ice. You are also allowed and in fact encouraged to add to your courses wherever you feel it will benefit your students and you can require that they meet those additional standards that you set.

As to costs of the Instructor course and exam that is set by the Instructor trainers. Initial agency fee for instructor is $250. We also offer a lifetime option where you pay $1000 and your instructor dues are covered for life. Not a great deal if you are in your 70's but if you are a 25 or 30 yr old becoming an instructor- that is some serious savings. Any SEI instructor can upgrade to lifetime status at at any point. If I had the extra grand I'd do it.