Instructor Requirements- continued...

[-hh]

I believe what -hh is referring to is that most of the deaths or accidents in this diver group(<50 dives) is related to buoyancy control issues according to DAN.I'm not a DAN member but this is what has been mentioned many times from DANs reports

Per this reference, Figure 50 is pretty close. What I was recalling yesterday offhand was essentially the "same thing", but with experience represented as #dives instead of #years. To that end, the narrative text states:

"As in previous reports, fatalities occurred most
often in divers who had been certified for one year or less and for more than six years."

This reflects the binary distribution I was referring to.

FWIW, I think it would be very interesting to see a cross-corrolation done between Figures 50 and 52 ... the reason being is that the big spike in August might be the newly certified divers. Maybe not, but won't know unless DAN crunches the numbers.


-hh

 

[Mako Mark]

particularly since one can technically go from Rescue thru DM thru AI to OWSI in as little as 3 weeks.-hh

dude, and you asked ME for data?? I have never seen a three weeks rescue DM OWSI...

You obviously haven't researched this before making such a statement. Using PADI as an example, lots of in water skills have been dropped since the 70's. Skin diving skills were required in the 70's. They are almost completely gone now. Rescue skills have been reduced. You are mistaken.

Walter, I do bow to your experience you know that, I believe you have nearly double my 15 years of teaching experience. but I am referring to the inclusion of skills such as disconnect LP hose UW, the expanded air depleteion excercise combined with AAS swimming. What I have seen is an inclusion of real world skills, and a dropping of unrealistic skills such as the ditch and dump.

If someone ignores all the advice in the manual and the advice given during the course, is the industry responsible? I think not.
.

Human nature is responsible.

The problem with limits, is that most humans believe that they are above average, the second problem is that in diving, when you discover exactly where your limits are, you are probably about to die. It is a VERY difficult line to step back from..

 

[Diver0001]

....snip.... the big spike in August might be the newly certified divers.

-hh

July could have been rainy too.

hh, Do you have a point to make? If so just make it in 50 words or less and get it over with. You're posts remind me of those chattering Halloween teeth and I'm sure I'm not the only one getting that.

R..

 

[Scubakevdm]

Per this reference, Figure 50 is pretty close. What I was recalling yesterday offhand was essentially the "same thing", but with experience represented as #dives instead of #years. To that end, the narrative text states:

"As in previous reports, fatalities occurred most
often in divers who had been certified for one year or less and for more than six years."

This reflects the binary distribution I was referring to.

FWIW, I think it would be very interesting to see a cross-corrolation done between Figures 50 and 52 ... the reason being is that the big spike in August might be the newly certified divers. Maybe not, but won't know unless DAN crunches the numbers.


-hh

I read through the case reports for each of the fatalities, which starts on page 109.
What I find interesting is number of these people who just should not be diving in the first place, physiologicaly. It struck me as though many of these tragedies happened within the first year, because it is inevitable that if you are diving with such acute health risks something very bad is going to happen very quickly. I did not have the sense that sub-standard instruction played much of a role in these.(with the exception of some the un-certified divers)

 

[Diver0001]

...snip.... I did not have the sense that sub-standard instruction played much of a role in these.(with the exception of some the un-certified divers)

I did. I had a very distinct impression that more focus on buoyancy control and watching your meters could reduce fatalities by 90%.

R..

 

[Scubakevdm]

I did. I had a very distinct impression that more focus on buoyancy control and watching your meters could reduce fatalities by 90%.

R..

I only noticed a possible BC inflator failure. Would you be kind enough to list those cases that you feel inadequate buoyancy control instruction played a key part in the fatality?

 

[Diver0001]

I only noticed a possible BC inflator failure. Would you be kind enough to list those cases that you feel inadequate buoyancy control instruction played a key part in the fatality?

It's on the bit that Mike likes to quote about 60% of fatalities involving buoyancy problems and 30% involving OOA.

Let's face it Kevin, OOA is inexcusable and is strictly a training issue. This is something I've really worked into my own style as a DM as a direct result of reading the DAN reports. None of my students (even though I'm not ultimately responsible I still see them as my students) will die as a result of forgetting to chech their air.

Buoyancy problems are not only inflator related and account for 60% of fatalities. I don't know how much time other instructors spend on buoyancy control but when I assist we spend about 30-40% of the time just swimming around making sure students can swim neutral. That's 95% of scuba diving and it's 60% of the accidents so it seems to me that it needs 100% of your attention as a trainer (DM or instructor).

R..

 

[jbd]

It's on the bit that Mike likes to quote about 60% of fatalities involving buoyancy problems and 30% involving OOA.

Let's face it Kevin, OOA is inexcusable and is strictly a training issue. This is something I've really worked into my own style as a DM as a direct result of reading the DAN reports. None of my students (even though I'm not ultimately responsible I still see them as my students) will die as a result of forgetting to chech their air.

Buoyancy problems are not only inflator related and account for 60% of fatalities. I don't know how much time other instructors spend on buoyancy control but when I assist we spend about 30-40% of the time just swimming around making sure students can swim neutral. That's 95% of scuba diving and it's 60% of the accidents so it seems to me that it needs 100% of your attention as a trainer (DM or instructor).

R..

I wonder how much relation there is between buoyancy control issues and OOA scenarios :06: I suspect it could be quite high.

Mastering buoyancy control is the center of my OW course, around which all the other training revolves. As you noted, buoyancy control is what most of actual diving skills are about. Excellent skills makes for safer diving.

 

[Diver0001]

I wonder how much relation there is between buoyancy control issues and OOA scenarios :06: I suspect it could be quite high.

This is the $100,000 chicken or egg question, isn't it. Not only OOA but a whole raft of things......

R..

 

[ZoCrowes255]

Depends on the person. I know people with 200+ dives who are working to be Instructors who still need a lot of polishing. I know other people with 40 dives in 4 months who will be great instructors given another year of diving.