Inon Flashes - Flood Warning

[Storker]

After many years of diving I have come to the conclusion that the people who fiddle the most with their camera gear, suffer the most failures.

[...]

I religiously grease my strobe o-rings every 50 dives or so, even if they do not need it. I do swap batteries every dive as I tend to shoot the strobe off too much. I visually check the o-ring each battery swap and only disturb it if I see evidence of sand. (and then I mentally beat myself just a bit for being a dumba** and abusing my gear). If sand is present I flip the oring off and clean the sand off with my wet fingers and DO NOT apply any additional grease. Grease attracts dirt (and cat hair!). Dirt is bad. Cat hair is worse.

I treat my camera housing orings the same. Never had a flood.

"Fiddle" or "check"? I totally agree that "if it works, don't fix it". OTOH, you need to check that stuff is in working order, that screws haven't seized (I dodged a bullet last year: galvanic corrosion between my tray screw and the screw hole in my housing caused me to twist the coin I used to unscrew the stuff) and that o-rings aren't dry. I have two Z240s, and there's a quite different "feel" to screwing on the batter compartment cover if the o-ring has gotten dry. If things are OK, don't try fixing it. But if the o-ring is dry, I dab just a smidgen of grease on my clean fingertip, run the ring between my fingers to give it a slight sheen and wipe off the excess with my dry fingers. That leaves just enough grease to keep the ring flexible and in good working order, but not enough to pick up sand, lint or hair.

Some users make the mistake of applying too much grease and fiddling too much with the gear. Others, like the OP, make the mistake of assuming that there's enough grease on the o-rings without checking. Both are equally wrong, the middle ground is -as almost in any situation - the best.

 

[boletus1973]

umh... i own two D2000 for years... 2007-2013.... after that i have two YS-D1.... the battery compartment cap of the sea&sea is one of the worst parts....
if I could, I would put the screw cap from inon! really more reliable!!
with my old inon I made a dive without the orings !! my forgetfulness, after cleaning the battery compartment I used them perfectly for another 2 years!

 

[KeithG]

umh... i own two D2000 for years... 2007-2013.... after that i have two YS-D1.... the battery compartment cap of the sea&sea is one of the worst parts....
if I could, I would put the screw cap from inon! really more reliable!!
with my old inon I made a dive without the orings !! my forgetfulness, after cleaning the battery compartment I used them perfectly for another 2 years!

Interesting - can you share specifics about the issues you had with the S&S caps?

 

[boletus1973]

Interesting - can you share specifics about the issues you had with the S&S caps?

yes,
the first is that you can not control the oring placement... with the inon you see the oring...
the second and most important is that it is really easy to open the cap accidentally, just hit something with the locking system and click! Sometimes when you are on the boats with many photographers, you give your camera to the boat guys or they give the camera to you....
it happened to me a couple of times in 50dives...
the first time I realized before entering the water .... the second time I'm 2 meters underwater ... I realized immediately because the flash was not working .. no contact with the batteries... only a pair of drops inside... i moved up to the surface and I closed the cap ...
with inon would never have happened .... and was not happened in 300dives because you had to unscrew the cap!


ps:i'm happy with my d1s... they are really powerfull.... but could be built better, it is also too easy to change settings unintentionally when you change the position of the arms ...

 

[SEMO Scuba]

Th Inon battery cap and o-ring system works very well. If the o-ring and battery cap have a small bit of lube on them when you screw the cap on, it slides right over the o-ring. You can even forgo the lube if you simply wet your finger tip and run it around the inside edge of the battery cap. Spit makes pretty good lube. Inon strobes use AA batteries and being able to quickly and easily change batteries is quite a plus. Some brands of strobes have a built in rechargeable battery and you are out of service until you recharge the battery.

When you screw on the Inon battery cap, if the sealing surfaces are dry and you are not paying attention, you can push the o-ring out of the groove. If you are paying attention you will notice that is happening, remove the cap, and start over before you ever damage the o-ring. The only other time I have read on this forum about an Inon strobe leak happened when a guy screwed the battery cap on, and it pushed the o-ring out. He said he did not even inspect it before his dive. The cap is clear and you can easily see the o-ring. He noticed the o-ring problem after the dive. Inattention was the cause of his failure, not poor design.

A proper pre-dive inspection of your camera gear is important just like inspecting your dive gear before a dive.

 

[KeithG]

yes,
the first is that you can not control the oring placement... with the inon you see the oring...
the second and most important is that it is really easy to open the cap accidentally, just hit something with the locking system and click! Sometimes when you are on the boats with many photographers, you give your camera to the boat guys or they give the camera to you....
it happened to me a couple of times in 50dives...
the first time I realized before entering the water .... the second time I'm 2 meters underwater ... I realized immediately because the flash was not working .. no contact with the batteries... only a pair of drops inside... i moved up to the surface and I closed the cap ...
with inon would never have happened .... and was not happened in 300dives because you had to unscrew the cap!


ps:i'm happy with my d1s... they are really powerfull.... but could be built better, it is also too easy to change settings unintentionally when you change the position of the arms ...

As a quasi design engineer type, I steadfastly cling to the "operator error" concept. Firmly. Very firmly. Extremely firmly!

Are you playing soccer with your strobes? (just kidding, but not really...).

The S&S battery cap design requires that you push in AND rotate the cap to lock / unlock it. I can not understand how an "accidental bump" opened the battery compartment. What size of stick are you using to beat your gear with?

I have had a few occasions where I misaligned the cap and/or did not push it in correctly and I failed to close the compartment properly. Every occurrence was caught immediately since the "bumps & white dots" did not line up properly (and it just felt weird). Never an issue since the product immediately provided "operator error" feedback via a visual check. In all cases I failed to close the battery door correctly. I also easily caught my error using the visual feedback built into the product. And I easily identified and fixed my mistake.

I do not claim the design is fool proof, as we all know that the world is creating better fools everyday, but it is sufficient.

Th Inon battery cap and o-ring system works very well. If the o-ring and battery cap have a small bit of lube on them when you screw the cap on, it slides right over the o-ring. You can even forgo the lube if you simply wet your finger tip and run it around the inside edge of the battery cap. Spit makes pretty good lube. Inon strobes use AA batteries and being able to quickly and easily change batteries is quite a plus. Some brands of strobes have a built in rechargeable battery and you are out of service until you recharge the battery.

When you screw on the Inon battery cap, if the sealing surfaces are dry and you are not paying attention, you can push the o-ring out of the groove. If you are paying attention you will notice that is happening, remove the cap, and start over before you ever damage the o-ring. The only other time I have read on this forum about an Inon strobe leak happened when a guy screwed the battery cap on, and it pushed the o-ring out. He said he did not even inspect it before his dive. The cap is clear and you can easily see the o-ring. He noticed the o-ring problem after the dive. Inattention was the cause of his failure, not poor design.

A proper pre-dive inspection of your camera gear is important just like inspecting your dive gear before a dive.

Great observation that the clear cap allows visual inspection of oring position. Maybe this should be a mandatory design feature for all strobes?

I have had 3 "underwater electronic" failures. They all involved dive lights that used a "screw on" system. In each case, I did not notice or observe any issue. All ended up with nasty salt water-battery chemical experiment results. In all cases the screw on design was poor enough that it could mis-seat the oring (push it out). In all cases, the design was terribly flawed. I now own a screw on dive light (HOG MORGH) whose design prevents this issue. The screw on part "bottoms out" against a hard stop and places the oring is a designed compression state. You cannot over tighten or under tighten. Kind of like the S&S design, there is only 1 answer. It is closed, or it is not closed.

 

[ml3456]

I like the S&S design. O-rings really aren't made to be screwed upon, but Inon makes them slippery and makes it work. I've been to Parker's school on o-rings, and they really don't agree with this in a industrial setting. I have had a Inon o-ring push out on the third dive that was shallow, not the deep dives. The S&S system doesn't pit as much stress on the oring, but you cannot see it like you can on and Inon. But id you flood all you need to do is clean and replace the oring.

 

[boletus1973]

As a quasi design engineer type, I steadfastly cling to the "operator error" concept. Firmly. Very firmly. Extremely firmly!

Are you playing soccer with your strobes? (just kidding, but not really...).

The S&S battery cap design requires that you push in AND rotate the cap to lock / unlock it. I can not understand how an "accidental bump" opened the battery compartment. What size of stick are you using to beat your gear with?

I have had a few occasions where I misaligned the cap and/or did not push it in correctly and I failed to close the compartment properly. Every occurrence was caught immediately since the "bumps & white dots" did not line up properly (and it just felt weird). Never an issue since the product immediately provided "operator error" feedback via a visual check. In all cases I failed to close the battery door correctly. I also easily caught my error using the visual feedback built into the product. And I easily identified and fixed my mistake.

I do not claim the design is fool proof, as we all know that the world is creating better fools everyday, but it is sufficient.

I'm happy for your upcoming engineering degree.... I'm not an engineer, I work for engineers and designers at least 20 years now ..i realize their ideas and sometimes, more often than you might think, their ideas are impractical and need many improvements... unfortunately...:depressed:
no ... I do not play soccer with my flashes!
the 2 times that has happened to me, has always been the second dive of the day, after the surface stop, it was my mistake? yes, but only because I haven't double-checked everything before the second dive... but if the first was ok!?!

but listen to me, when your camera is at rest on the deck of the boat, the flashes are flat on the floor and are upsidedown attached to the arms... the closure system is really exposed... not protected by anything and sometimes ... for example in lembeh where you're not the only photographer ... the guys in the boat move your gear among others ... not so hard to defuse the click of closure ... the rig it's heavy.... and has happened! with a little protective lip on the top of the flash, the closure system would be bombproof.

for me, in this environment of sensitive and expensive equipment brought into hostile elements, the "bomb-proof" is a must ... I know that does not really exist, but you can approach ...

the rule of the single finger, may help explain what I mean ..

you can open your housing with a single finger? you can not!

you can release your housing port with a single finger? you can not!

you can open the battery cap of your inon flash with a single finger? you can not!

you can release the cap of your sea&sea d1 with a single finger? YES YOU CAN!

you can change modes and settings of your inon flash with a single finger? you can not!

you can change modes and settings of your sea&sea d1 with a single finger? YES YOU CAN!

Everything can be improved! although you may still flood! :depressed:

if I seemed rude I apologize! my English is basic and the tone of the conversation might sound rough!
fabio.


ps:the battery compartment of my inon was waterproof, I made a dive without ORings ... and were still alive ...

---------- Post added February 24th, 2015 at 03:49 PM ----------

I forgot to mention electrolysis between the alluminium ball adapter and the small steel plate under the flash...

 

[Ardy]

Boletus: I have been using strobes since about 1980 and I have flooded 2, a SnS which I did a wiring job on to match my Nikon F4 TTL and did not screw it together properly, and the Inon Z240. Both were my fault. I work on the 'if it ain't a problem don't fix it' system which has served me well.

For the last 15 years I have used SnS strobes with the push in, clip shut mechanism. I had a problem after owning one for 5 years, the cap came off as I was getting out of the water and the battery compartment flooded (which is not a problem with SnS). The dive shop owner showed me that there is another 'click' when you close the compartment and I had been using mine for 5 years! without closing the back properly (are you using your flash without it 'clicked shut'?. Since then never a problem and I have not had your settings problem, but I tend to hold onto my camera once it is set up.

Bvant? said in another post that he has seen many Inon floods due to the o'ring issue.

I think the o'ring used in the Inon is too soft for a screw down o'ring. I have dive lights with screw down o'rings, that I've have owned for 30 years which still work well BUT the o'rings are the older style which were not so flexible. My Inon was greased correctly and I had only done 9 dives since then, to me this should not be a cause for a problem BUT it was.

This is not a minor issue that has only happened to me and a few others. The Inon o'ring is an issue and I am convinced that the SnS system is better.

I don't care about not seeing the o'ring in the SnS as it has never been a problem. Nobody mentioned in any post when I was doing my research into the Inon flash that you should check the o'ring seating before every dive. If you have to do this, then there is a potential problem right there. My housing has o'rings that you can see but I don't go looking at it before every dive to ensure it is OK.

If I buy another Inon at some stage (unlikely but you never know) I will replace the o'ring on the battery cap with the older normal ones.

 

[boletus1973]

Boletus: I have been using strobes since about 1980 and I have flooded 2, a SnS which I did a wiring job on to match my Nikon F4 TTL and did not screw it together properly, and the Inon Z240. Both were my fault. I work on the 'if it ain't a problem don't fix it' system which has served me well.

For the last 15 years I have used SnS strobes with the push in, clip shut mechanism. I had a problem after owning one for 5 years, the cap came off as I was getting out of the water and the battery compartment flooded (which is not a problem with SnS). The dive shop owner showed me that there is another 'click' when you close the compartment and I had been using mine for 5 years! without closing the back properly (are you using your flash without it 'clicked shut'?. Since then never a problem and I have not had your settings problem, but I tend to hold onto my camera once it is set up.

Bvant? said in another post that he has seen many Inon floods due to the o'ring issue.

I think the o'ring used in the Inon is too soft for a screw down o'ring. I have dive lights with screw down o'rings, that I've have owned for 30 years which still work well BUT the o'rings are the older style which were not so flexible. My Inon was greased correctly and I had only done 9 dives since then, to me this should not be a cause for a problem BUT it was.

This is not a minor issue that has only happened to me and a few others. The Inon o'ring is an issue and I am convinced that the SnS system is better.

I don't care about not seeing the o'ring in the SnS as it has never been a problem. Nobody mentioned in any post when I was doing my research into the Inon flash that you should check the o'ring seating before every dive. If you have to do this, then there is a potential problem right there. My housing has o'rings that you can see but I don't go looking at it before every dive to ensure it is OK.

If I buy another Inon at some stage (unlikely but you never know) I will replace the o'ring on the battery cap with the older normal ones.

I read your discussion about your poor Z240 .... sorry for that...... but, why did you leave the flooded batteries 6 hours inside the flash? The battery compartment is sealed even in inons .. the big problem is the overpressure produced by the hot acid from batteries and the corrosion!
as I said, with my inons I did a dive without the orings... without problems...

I'm glad you're happy with sea & sea .... I am too! but I was also with inons d2000 for about 300dives .. with the same soft oring and the same battery cap ..... and i use the same method.. 'if it ain't a problem don't fix it' ...

it is easy to close the sea & sea cap... do not worry that I can do it properly! the "problem" is that it is also easy to open ... the rule of a single finger is not liar ..
I don't have setting problems... just use the flash only manually and often change power and position... sometimes this change of position results in involuntary changes of settings/power... because the controls are levers exposed and not knobs.... i prefer knobs because you need two fingers for changes...
when I had the inons, I did a fast check to the o-ring only when I change batteries and close the cap ... not before every dive!
the world is a strange place, in Italy for what I heard, the percentages of flooding between inon and sea & sea are opposite ... I think that changing the hardness of a component such as an o-ring is not a good idea .... for me!