Indpendant doubles????

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Im just looking at some options here. Mostly for travel where rentals are AL80s with yokes, Im thinking indpendant doubles are worth looking at. Eliminates a lot of problems, but! Im just wondering if anyone is doing it this way and why. Never being one to follow the masses just becouse someone else said to, Id like to have a serious discusion of the pros and cons of this plan. If you have DIR ( or what ever agency) tunnel vision and can't think outside the box, please with hold your comments.
Thanks in advance for your input.
 
I saw a home made set that bolt to any old BC yesterday. Im using a BP/W with a doubles wing. I have the regs and Im just thinking this would be much easer than trying to convert resort tanks to DIN with a yoke or bringing my own tanks.
 
I've done this on a number of dives when manifolded doubles weren't availble or would have cost extra. My DSS steel plate has slots on it for independent doubles as does my wing, so I can just attach 2 tanks on it with regular cam straps. I need an extra SPG though but I have those anyway for deco bottles.

Pros: Way to dive doubles when manifolded twinsets aren't available. Eliminates the potential problems of a manifold.

Edit: Another pro I just remembered was the ease of carrying the single tanks separately onto te boat and sometimes only having to change one tank - on some dives I used a third of one tank and two-thirds of the other, so then I could change the one with two-thirds gone for a total fresh gas supply of 5/6ths of doubles, whereas with manifolded twins I would have been 1/2 down to begin with and without a change necessitating the change. Sometimes that could require bringing 3 manifolded twinsets onto the boat versus 4 single tanks for independents.

Cons: Extra SPG. Trickier gas management. Need to balance the wing out a few times as the gas difference between the tanks adds up in a weight imbalance. Reg switches required. Two high performance (balanced) regs preferable (I would use these anyway). Monitoring two SPG's and doing the switches adds to task loading - if you forget to switch and breath one tank down then you won't have anything to donate except your own (remaining) reg, so you'll have to buddy breathe. Also you have to think about your hose setup and what you'll donate in case of an OOG situation.

I prefer manifolded twinsets because the pros outweigh the cons for me, but independents have their place and haven't given me any problems, albeit I've only used them on rec dives. On those dives I kept my DIR short hose, long hose setup. I started breathing off the short hose and once the first tank was 1/3rds empty I switched to the long hose for 2/3rds of the second tank before switching again. For my rec dives I often didn't need a second switch.

In an OOG situation I would donate the long hose - this is straightforward if I'm breathing it anyway, otherwise I have to unclip it from the chest d-ring, so it adds a complication. I've thought of adding a d-ring to the long hose boltsnap so that my buddy or I could just rip it off the d-ring in an emergency, but I haven't gotten that far. Also, I'd be donating something I'm not breathing which isn't DIR, and if my buddy were to rip the short hose out of my mouth it would be another PITA to deal with. So it's not ideal, but if independents are all I have then I make the best of them.
 
When I dive I try to eliminate as many failure points as possible. To me the manifolded doubles were a failure point in regard to the o-rings, also they do not allow flexibility in dive planning. Say you get to the dive site and vis is stellar, go from 2 single dives to one long with doubles.
I do not buy in to the more task loading debate, if you can chew gum and walk at the same time, independant doubles are not task loading.
OMS makes a travel double set up that is great for independant doubles, uses double straps off a central piece of stainless, bolts to just about anybodys plate. The cost is low for oms, I think it is around 175.00.
Eric
 
I use Aqua Explorer's "Ultimate Travel Bands" and overall I like the design, It's very stable and durable. The exception would be the plastic cam buckles. I replaced mine with stainess steel after breaking a couple of the plastic ones gearing up for winter/ice dives.

I prefer independent doubles for extremely cold water diving as in the event you get a freeze flow, there is no absolute need to close the valve on the freeflowing reg. It's still beneficial and a good idea, but you are not going to vent all your gas if you don't. It makes me feel better if I am in some sort of restriction where closing a post could be problematic.

Gas management is often cited as a con. but in my opinion if you have problems rembering to look at your SPG now and then and are over loaded by the need to make 2 gas switches during the dive, you need to stick to very sallow single tank dives anyway.

In practice with 2400 psi tanks, it means breathing the first tank down to 1600 psi and then breathing the second tank down to 800 psi before making the switch back to the to first tank, which should get you back to the boat with 800 psi (1/3) in each tank. The math is even easier with 3000 psi tanks. This approach ensures that in the event you lose the contents of one tank, the contents of the other will be adequate to get you back to the surface or first deco gas switch.

Plus once you start diving it, it becomes very routine. The configuration also allows you to just breathe off one tank in a strictly recreational dive with what amounts to an enormous pony.

Personally, I have never had problems with trim issues with one full and one mostly empty tank. If you use the 1/3-2/3rd gas management approach the maximum weight differential between tanks is even less and should not pose any problems regardless of what wing you are using.

In the past, I used to use a long hose on the right tank and a short hose on the left tank and would clip whatever reg was not in use off on a right shoulder D-ring. (I have never been overly thrilled with bungeed octos.) Using a bolt snap attached to the reg with an o-ring around the base of the mouthpiece, makes it possible to access the reg without having to unclip it.

Lately, though I have departed from the herd and am using a M&J industries gas switching block with a single second stage. The block is mounted aft of the D-ring/light in the right waist strap and the hoses run down the backplate from each tank to the block. The hose feeding the second stage then routes up across the chest and around the neck to the reg. At 43" inches it is not exactly a long hose, but works well for gas sharing any place other than a cave. Since the majority of my deep diving is solo, it's a moot point. This setup also requires overpressure valves on each first stage as a safety measure.

Since most of my diving is sols, an Air 2 serves as my backup reg, but there's no reason a conventional short hose octo or bungeed octo could not be used.

This configuration has it's downsides, but the advantage is that the gas switches are a snap requiring only that the rotating knob on the block be rotated. Since the middle position is an "off" position, any unintentional movement of the switch will immediately get your attention so unintentionally breathing of the "wrong" tank is very unlikely as the switch is unlikley to be accidentally bumped over the center notch off position. With a switch block any task loading argument related to the mechanics of the gas switch itself, virtually evaporates.
 
I've always felt I'd prefer independent doubles since I already dive them with my 120 and 19! It seems to make a lot of sense to me... total redundancy. What if I can't reach the isolator valve? Gulp.

Of course for now, diving the 120 and 19 gives me all the air I need for everything except my really deep air dives. I'm planning to carry a slung 30 for those in the future.

Note: I am by no means a tech diver and don't even play one on my TV show! Not that I have anything against tech diving or divers of course.
 
waterpirate:
When I dive I try to eliminate as many failure points as possible. To me the manifolded doubles were a failure point in regard to the o-rings, also they do not allow flexibility in dive planning. Say you get to the dive site and vis is stellar, go from 2 single dives to one long with doubles.

Huh? I understand potential failure issue (even though I don't know of any situation where this has actually happened), but flexibility?

I do not buy in to the more task loading debate, if you can chew gum and walk at the same time, independant doubles are not task loading.

My biggest problem with independent doubles is donating gas to your buddy as well as losing half your gas supply no matter what the failure is. What do you do when you are on your backup regulator and your buddy wants gas? Fiddle around looking for that bolt snap to unclip before donating? Dive with two longhoses? There just doesn't seem to be a good way to handle it.
 
For travel why not just sling the two tanks instead of mounting them on the BP?

Many boats I've been on object to doubles configured in the traditional way based on space and boat configuration.

So, if it is the typical deep-shallow tourist rec dive why not just sling both. That way for the deep dive you have lots of redundant gas and are still in good shape for the shallow dive. The boat crew can't object because you aren't taking up any more space than anyone else. Your luggage is lighter than if carrying a manifold and bands, or even bands by themselves.

Seems everyone wins this way.

Added: To share there are options. Most likely is to just give the OOA a hose. Or, even better than a long hose, just unclip and hand the OOA a bottle. Help them clip it on their rig and everyone is copasetic.

.
 
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