Inconsistent message to new divers

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I can easily see both sides of this. On the one hand, when I went to Coz, our entire group had a boat to ourselves and simply told the dive op that we wanted to stay at or above 100 feet. Nobody hassled us, because there were no accomodations to anyone else that had to be made.

But the incident Peter describes was different. We were on a small boat with 8 or 10 other divers. We had gotten the dive briefing and we were running through our head-to-toe equipment check (which takes about two minutes). The dive leader, who was an instructor, looked at us and said, "Gee, it's going to be a night dive by the time you guys get done with what you are doing." (He was clearly irritated, even though there was no current or anything else that required dispatch in getting into the water.) My husband was annoyed enough to get in his face about it; I am a different person, and alone, I would have been embarrassed -- and as a new diver, I would probably have abbreviated or omitted the gear check from that point onward. But we did have other people on the trip who liked what we were doing enough to come over and say, "Can we get in on your buddy check?"

Now, of course, there are ways of expressing disagreement that are likely to go smoothly, and others that don't. If the dive briefed is over your head, it's unlikely to anger someone if you say, "I only have five dives and my buoyancy's still a little shaky; is there a way to do this and stay a little shallower?" It's going to cause problems if you say, "I don't think that dive is appropriate for a new diver, and I won't do it." But either way, if you have a harried dive guide and it's going to be inconvenient to change the plan, you may get a negative response, with either pressure to do what you don't want to do, or even anger. That's human nature and reality.

The best place to solve the problem, as with so many other diving issues, is well before you're getting in the water. If new divers know enough to discuss with the dive op in advance what kind of diving they do, they can voice their concerns well before the staff are under time pressure or faced with the ire of other divers.

I have really enjoyed this thread, because it has pointed out some things that Peter and I ought to bring up with our students. Good topic!
 
How NEW are you talking here? First or second dive after the certification dives, or certification is all done and it the first or second trip?

"New" enough that that they sign up for a "guided" dive because they think it's safer.

flots.
 
The guide who made the snide comment about your gear check was nothing short of rude, which in addition to being short-sighted from a safety standpoint is also just plain stupid from a business perspective considering that he was dealing directly with the customer, and his actions put the operator employing him in a bad light.

I agree that letting operators know ahead of time what your expectations are will help prevent problems. As I pointed out, I sometimes hire extra dive guides (or go along myself) to make sure my divers get signed on for dives that match their comfort and interest levels. I wouldn't be able to do it on the spot--I need to have this information the day before the dive in order to get it "right" for the divers I work with.
 
But the incident Peter describes was different. We were on a small boat with 8 or 10 other divers. We had gotten the dive briefing and we were running through our head-to-toe equipment check (which takes about two minutes). The dive leader, who was an instructor, looked at us and said, "Gee, it's going to be a night dive by the time you guys get done with what you are doing."

The problem is that you weren't using the "DM Speak" to English dictionary.

DM Speak: "Gee, it's going to be a night dive by the time you guys get done with what you are doing."
English: "I don't want a tip or any repeat business."

He had probably never seen a buddy check before.

flots.
 
Hi Roger,

I'm sure that's true, but you have to wonder how many chose not to object at all despite being uncomfortable with the situation. It's the fear of retribution, ridicule, etc. that sometimes keeps new divers from objecting (and understandably so).



Cosmo,
I am having a hard time understanding what the retribution would be??? I dont accept the premise that there are a large number of people out there who are afraid to do what it is they are paying me to do. Perhaps there is a small number of customers who will keep their concerns hidden for fear of reprisal but if they are hidden.......(whats a guy to do)

You and everyone else should always remember that you are first and foremost consumers of a product and it is easy to give your business to someone else.

Cheers,
Roger
 
I am having a hard time understanding what the retribution would be??? I dont accept the premise that there are a large number of people out there who are afraid to do what it is they are paying me to do.

They don't want to feel ashamed for not being qualified for the dive the DM wants to do.

I dive with new divers on vacations periodically, and on one occasion had to tell the DM that we weren't ready for the dive he planned, and that he really needed to make it "2 reef dives" not "a wall and a reef" and that if he insisted on doing what he wanted, my buddy and I would not get off the boat.

He was pushing like hell to do the wall dive and kept explaining how safe it was, but finally gave in.

Later the other buddy pair (a newlywed couple) thanked me. The wife was almost in tears at the prospect of doing the wall dive, but had a great time on the reef.

Sometimes you need to really put your foot down and a lot of new divers don't have the confidence or brass b*** to tell the DM to either do what's right or <insert interesting/painful physical act here>

flots.
 
Last edited:
That's why you don't let your divemasters lead dives. That way the captain can determine the most appropriate place for the level of the divers in the group. Divemasters are still new enough divers (in many cases) that they want to go where they want to go, not the place most appropriate...
 
The other solutions regarding not feeling comfortable about doing a dive are OK, but I like TS&M's best--talk it out with the shop (owner...) first.
 
That's why you don't let your divemasters lead dives. That way the captain can determine the most appropriate place for the level of the divers in the group. Divemasters are still new enough divers (in many cases) that they want to go where they want to go, not the place most appropriate...

I'm sure that's what it was. the DM wanted a wall dive and had probably seen enough of this patch of reef.

flots.
 
Hi Roger,

I'm sure that's true, but you have to wonder how many chose not to object at all despite being uncomfortable with the situation. It's the fear of retribution, ridicule, etc. that sometimes keeps new divers from objecting (and understandably so).

I wrote a story about just such a situation about a year ago ... a young lady who died on her first post OW dive. She was diving a site that she had no business diving. At several points along the way she expressed inhibitions about doing the dive. And each time she was assured by a shop owner, an instructor, and a dive boat operator that her worries were unfounded. Five minutes into the dive she and her dive buddy separated, due to extremely poor visibility. The buddy surfaced ... she didn't. They found her on the bottom 40 minutes later, reg out of her mouth. She survived for three days on a respirator ... until her parents decided to pull the plug.

Had she listened to her own judgement, rather than that of the dive professionals who kept reassuring her, she'd probably be alive today.

Some good adages for a new diver to keep in mind ...

- If it feels wrong, it is wrong.
- Listen to that little voice inside your head ... it's trying to keep you alive.
- Problems that occur on the surface don't get any better once you submerge them underwater.

You don't know what you don't know ... but you do know how you feel better than anyone else, regardless of how much experience that other person may have. Trust your feelings ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom