Incident - Spiegel Grove

[DandyDon]

I'd love to dive the Grove, but I'm never sure how seriously to take the warnings. I'm not sure if they're trying scare off recently minted AOWs with 20 dives, or if it's a real problem where the current is going to rip me off the wreck at a moment's notice.

Is the current any worse than Cozumel, for example?

Terry

Can be worse, or lighter - varies, sometimes while on the dive s in this case, and it's not planned as a drift dive. Really neat now that she is upright, tho. With proper use of drift line, current line, mooring line, you can almost always pull yourself forward and down to it without a real problem, then stay pretty well out of the currents as you explore into the current direction, turn at 2/3 air supply, ascend at 1/3 for stops on the line, etc. Just gotta be prepared for things to go awry.

 

[jpcpat]

I dove the Grove several times, including last week and it's a great dive. It's an advanced dive for a few reasons: Current, overhead environments and depth. If you have the training and experience to handle all of them at once, go for it, with a captain, divemaster and buddy you trust. The crews know the site and all the challenges that go with it, so listen to the dive briefing, and ask questions.

Some points to keep in mind:
Look at the sea state, if it's too high, a snorkel is only good for a drink of salt water. Breath through your reg, it's easier. NB, the sea state can change while you are underwater, so plan for it

There are often currents, and they can show up suddenly, so hold on to the ascent/descent line. On the wreck itself, you can almost always find a way to put the hull between you and the current. Getting down low to the deck and pulling yourself along rather than finning gives a lot of protection too. Start the dive into the current: it makes the swim back much easier.

The swim throughs are cool, but you can come out in a current, so be ready. Not everything got sealed, so it is possible to do a penetration dive (but DON'T). If you don't know the difference, don't go in. The Grove is way cool even without the swim through.

Check your SPG and computer more often than you think you need to. You use air pretty quick, and you can run out of bottom time, too. Head back to the mooring line with at least 1000 psi left, and hang on while you make a nice slow ascent and safety stop. (I dove it on ean 34 for even more safety margin) Try to get back to the right ascent line. If you can't, there are lots of them and any line is better than an open water ascent, though an open water ascent is better than drowning. If I came up on the wrong line, I would be reluctant to try a surface swim to the boat if there was any kind of sea state or current running.

I can't take credit for the above, most of it came from the briefing by Captain Tony of the Scuba-Do, who consistently gave the best briefings of any boat I saw in the Keys. It helped make me feel safe.


It seems to me that the crew of the RR did a great job with a diver who got in trouble on the surface. Yes, it looks like it started with some bad decisions underwater (bad navigation and/or air management) but however it happened, we have a diver breathing through a snorkel with too much sea running. MAYBE a boat with fewer divers could have done a quicker recovery and helped the diver quicker, but maybe not, too.

JC

I'd love to dive the Grove, but I'm never sure how seriously to take the warnings. I'm not sure if they're trying scare off recently minted AOWs with 20 dives, or if it's a real problem where the current is going to rip me off the wreck at a moment's notice.

Is the current any worse than Cozumel, for example?

Terry

 

[tmolm69]

H2Andy said it best (be ready and have your mind in the right place). Have the training to make a acent free of a line and surface to be picked up make sure the captain knows the plain if you get blown away.
Tim

 

[CPDiver]

What classes teach how to deploy a bag properly? I'd like to learn how to use one.

My PADI AOW instructor covered lift bag deployment. Great way to watch Boyle's law in action.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I'm not sure if they're trying scare off recently minted AOWs with 20 dives

:lol: The Spiegel Grove was my 20th dive. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[HowardE]

I'd love to dive the Grove, but I'm never sure how seriously to take the warnings. I'm not sure if they're trying scare off recently minted AOWs with 20 dives, or if it's a real problem where the current is going to rip me off the wreck at a moment's notice.

Is the current any worse than Cozumel, for example?

Terry

The grove is a deep wreck dive by recreational standards. It is also one of the most dived sites in Florida. Visited by many noobs and freshly minted AOW carded divers.

If you have dived wrecks with depths AS DEEP AS 132' - with current, that CAN be moderate to strong. You should feel very confident on the Grove.

I would say that most of the warnings are definitely to SCARE - noobs to realize that there CAN BE advanced situations on this dive, and that if you've never been in a current (AT ALL) or on a wreck, or as deep as 100+ feet, that you're gonna be in for some stuff then. I've been on the grove with 70+ foot viz, and almost no current at all. We easily swam front to back and around the ship NO PROBLEM.

Another reason that there could be issues for people is - How inviting it is to penetrate this wreck. There are lines run through the hallways, leading you towards light. The hallways are plenty large enough to swim through, and there are some large - well cleaned rooms in there as well, almost saying, "come on in and check me out" - However... there are some places where a non-cautious person could get entangled easily.

The spiegel Grove has several ascent lines, so if, lets say, you're there on a low viz, strong current day... You could at the very least grab onto any of the fixed ascent lines, and find a bouy on the surface to hang on to.

I would MOST DEFINITELY have on my person for a dive on the SG a SAFETY SAUSAGE, and a SPOOL or at least enough line to deploy the sausage from a safety stop. If you don't already carry a sausage, and a line... GO GET ONE! Also, bring a flashlight... because you can at least look inside, if you don't penetrate. (I am not advocating penetration w.o. training, or experience here... so use your discretion)

So back to Terry's original question -

Current - yes can be strong, but you should be able to stay on the wreck or at least pick the "wrong" ascent line to safely ascend - the current can also be nil. If you've never dived in ANY current at all... be prepared for a new experience that will challenge you, and probably make you burn through your tank really fast.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Nice summary, Howard.

 

[HowardE]

Nice summary, Howard.

It kind of reminds me of the difference between "diamond and double diamond" (ski run trail difficulty ratings)

The only difference between a diamond and double diamond IMO - is that there's no "escape route" from a double diamond... or there's no easier way down the mountain.

If you're on a Black Diamond trail... usually there's a cutout or a way through the trees or SOMETHING that will get you on an easier trail. SO if you need to bail out.. you can.

on a Double Diamond - there is no easy escape route. If you go on a DD trail, you'd better be good enough to get down.


- does this make sense? The SG is only as advanced as other deeper wrecks in current, but since SO MANY unexperienced wreck divers - want to dive the SG - THAT is what makes all the warnings, alerts, etc. go up... also that is probably why there is a higher incident rate on this wreck than others... just the sheer volume of people attempting this dive - must increase the probability of incident.

 

[Web Monkey]

Thanks for the description!

I'll have to catch it next time I'm in the keys.

Terry

The grove is a deep wreck dive by recreational standards. It is also one of the most dived sites in Florida. Visited by many noobs and freshly minted AOW carded divers.

If you have dived wrecks with depths AS DEEP AS 132' - with current, that CAN be moderate to strong. You should feel very confident on the Grove.

I would say that most of the warnings are definitely to SCARE - noobs to realize that there CAN BE advanced situations on this dive, and that if you've never been in a current (AT ALL) or on a wreck, or as deep as 100+ feet, that you're gonna be in for some stuff then. I've been on the grove with 70+ foot viz, and almost no current at all. We easily swam front to back and around the ship NO PROBLEM.

Another reason that there could be issues for people is - How inviting it is to penetrate this wreck. There are lines run through the hallways, leading you towards light. The hallways are plenty large enough to swim through, and there are some large - well cleaned rooms in there as well, almost saying, "come on in and check me out" - However... there are some places where a non-cautious person could get entangled easily.

The spiegel Grove has several ascent lines, so if, lets say, you're there on a low viz, strong current day... You could at the very least grab onto any of the fixed ascent lines, and find a bouy on the surface to hang on to.

I would MOST DEFINITELY have on my person for a dive on the SG a SAFETY SAUSAGE, and a SPOOL or at least enough line to deploy the sausage from a safety stop. If you don't already carry a sausage, and a line... GO GET ONE! Also, bring a flashlight... because you can at least look inside, if you don't penetrate. (I am not advocating penetration w.o. training, or experience here... so use your discretion)

So back to Terry's original question -

Current - yes can be strong, but you should be able to stay on the wreck or at least pick the "wrong" ascent line to safely ascend - the current can also be nil. If you've never dived in ANY current at all... be prepared for a new experience that will challenge you, and probably make you burn through your tank really fast.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

- does this make sense?

I think that's a very good analogy, Howard. I did go inside, but only after stopping at each threshold and looking back at where I'd come from, and seeing a clear exit out of where I was going.