Incident (?) and questions

[Dirty-Dog]

Dude, This is the Near Misses and Lessons Learned forum.

Getting slapped on the wrist by a self professed noob is hardly an incentive to post.

It wasn't a slap on anything. It was intended (and I thought it would come across) as a gentle reminder to stay within ones training and experience, and avoid DCS entirely.

I'm sorry you thought it was too harsh.

And that's KING of the Noobs to you, sir.

 

[ggunn]

Thanks for all the responses. To answer some questions: My computer is an Oceanic Prodigy. I have been diving for 16 years, most of it in Cozumel, and mostly on a couple of trips per year. I carry DAN Master insurance.

I do not cavalierly go into deco; I can remember three times. The first was on an ill-planned dive years ago to 150'+ on Maracaibo with an op and DM who are no longer around. The second was my own damn fault for not paying better attention on a second dive. Lessons learned.

This time it was diving Punta Sur Cathedral, and I saw I was into the yellow when I entered the last swimthrough. The outlet was lower than the inlet, and when I exited, I was in deco with a three minute obligation. I came up very slowly, stopping at 40 feet, 30 feet, and 15-20 feet, watching my computer, and was only one or two ticks into the yellow when I came up. I would have stayed down longer, but I was low on air by that time. Also, that was the day before the day I experienced the arm pain, not the day of.

In retrospect and thanks to your responses, I don't think my symptoms were DCS related, but should such a thing happen again, I'll make a call to DAN just for peace of mind. I would have gone to the dive shop and asked around this time, but it was Sunday afternoon and everyone had gone home.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[ianr33]

a gentle reminder to stay within ones training and experience, and avoid DCS entirely.

And that's KING of the Noobs to you, sir.

Well Mr KING of the noobs,sir. I would just like to point out that it is entirely possible to get bent diving totally within your training and experience. Also, although it may look as if you have just crossed some magical line when your computer goes into deco there is really very little difference between being one minute away from NDL and having a mandatory one minute stop. NDL/Deco is really a very wide fuzzy gray area.

My computer is an Oceanic Prodigy.

I came up very slowly, stopping at 40 feet, 30 feet, and 15-20 feet, watching my computer, and was only one or two ticks into the yellow when I came up. I would have stayed down longer, but I was low on air by that time.

I'm not familiar with that computer but I'm guessing its algorithm is probably similar to the Aeris Atmos Pro I've had for many years ? I've done hundreds of dives with this computer and only twice surfaced with it in the yellow. Both times I felt beat afterwards (To be fair these were both deco dives with more deco than one should be doing on backgas)
On deco dives with one deco gas my Shearwater clears about the same time as the Aeris Atmos Pro goes into the yellow,even though the Aeris does not know I've been breathing 100% O2 for the last 5 to 10 minutes !!!!!
Dont get me wrong,the Aeris is a great computer but I do take the yellow "caution" zone seriously. Personally, and YMMV I would need a real good reason to surface with it in the yellow. Do that dive after dive after dive and I would pretty much expect to get bent.

 

[TSandM]

I don't have a problem with an experienced diver going into a little deco . . . but this story illustrates why doing it when you didn't plan to is a bad idea. The problem with deco isn't deco . . . you can always do the time, if you have the gas. If you didn't plan the dive, you may not have the gas, as it sounds like was the case here.

I don't know if your pain was DCS or not. I do know that I have had some really bad shoulder and neck pain after dives, that lasted about the length of the drive home (an hour) or a little more, and I have always assumed that's just the stress of hiking around with my body's weight worth of gear hung from my shoulders. But decompression stress IS cumulative, and the dives of the day before do pertain to the dives of the day of symptoms.

I don't know what your answer is, but next time, especially if the pain is spreading and getting worse, I'd probably make a phone call at the very least.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... Oceanic Prodigy ...

When the Oceanic's in the yellow a Cobra or Viper would usually be holding you at 10' for 15 minutes. It's one of the main reasons I like the Oceanic
But... your incident doesn't sound like DCS to me, but either something pulled in the arm or pinched in the neck.
Rick

 

[Divedoggie]

I don't know if your pain was DCS or not. I do know that I have had some really bad shoulder and neck pain after dives, that lasted about the length of the drive home (an hour) or a little more, and I have always assumed that's just the stress of hiking around with my body's weight worth of gear hung from my shoulders. But decompression stress IS cumulative, and the dives of the day before do pertain to the dives of the day of symptoms.

Sometimes after a a long dive or a series of dives I have experienced similar pains. I think its partly due to the stress of carrying a system designed for underwater effeciency, but is a poor backpack with all of the weight un-naturally placed across the shoulders.
It may also be partly due to maintaining a somewhat static position underwater for long periods of time. A drift dive in Coz involves very little finning or any movement at all. Add the posibility of a little shivering toward the end of a long dive and we are pretty close to actual muscle spasms.

 

[DandyDon]

Glad it worked okay and you weren't injured badly, Gordy. A couple of hedges I learned from Dr.Deco here for when one has to surface an Oceanic in the Yellow zone...

What he calls the Hidden Safety Stop: relaxing on the surface for a full minute before any movements to approach and board the boat.

Removing the kit in the water for the captain to lift up for you lessens the stress of climbing a ladder, somewhat more difficult on a 8 pack boat than a big one.​

In addition to the usuals: hydrate hydrate hydrate, etc.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Removing the kit in the water for the captain to lift up for you lessens the stress of climbing a ladder, somewhat more difficult on a 8 pack boat than a big one.​

In addition to the usuals: hydrate hydrate hydrate, etc.

@DandyDon -
Agreed 100% on "hydrate, hydrate, hydrate."

Question for you on removing gear in the water - I thought you were noted for not removing your reg from your mouth until your butt was on the seat. The "remove gear before boarding" sounds like a contradiction. What is your guideline for changing from "always have reg in mouth" to "make your boat boarding easy"?

This sounds like a chance to pick up sage advice on adapting to situations vs. a blanket rule.

Thanks!

 

[DandyDon]

@DandyDon -
Agreed 100% on "hydrate, hydrate, hydrate."

Question for you on removing gear in the water - I thought you were noted for not removing your reg from your mouth until your butt was on the seat. The "remove gear before boarding" sounds like a contradiction. What is your guideline for changing from "always have reg in mouth" to "make your boat boarding easy"?

This sounds like a chance to pick up sage advice on adapting to situations vs. a blanket rule.

Thanks!

Well, lookin' to me for sage advice may be a misdirection; I may be more known for what I've got away with. :silly:

But yeah that can be a contradiction. I do like to keep my reg in teeth until fully boarded, but if I've surfaced in the Yellow, or last year in Coz with a sore knee, and need to board a small 8 pack - it becomes a choice. I may be the only one on a boat who dives with a snorkel, but it's folded in my BC pocket with a Velcro attachment on my mask and I'll switch to it in rough water...

 

[SC_Hoaty]

But yeah that can be a contradiction. I do like to keep my reg in teeth until fully boarded, but if I've surfaced in the Yellow, or last year in Coz with a sore knee, and need to board a small 8 pack - it becomes a choice.

Thanks - that takes some of the "mystery" out of it.

I still take the snorkel (on mask strap) but it does seem to get in the way. I may have to look into the pocket kind.