In search of octo holder that actually works

[pinshootr]

Hose Clip Retainer | Dive Rite with a bolt snap made to break away in an emergency

 

[Bob DBF]

I settled on a bungeed necklace after trying a lot of configurations.

I found this holder to be the best low tech, cheap, and effective solution for the triangle configuration.

It is similar to stuartv's, so either would work. Loop around a d-ring and put the reg mouthpiece through the square loop. The only problem is that it is a pita to insert the octo after drill underwater with gloves, in actual use that not an issue.


Bob

 

[halocline]

Maybe that is the best solution for @Marie13. Use a small zip tie to attach a bolt snap to her octo. Clip the octo off to a D-ring. For an OOA situation, just yank the octo off the bolt snap, rather than trying to unclip.

Not a zip tie, those are way too strong. A small section (maybe 1/4") of bicycle inner tube works great, in fact I use them to attach bolt snaps to anything with a hose connected; long hose primary, can light, SPG. A heavy rubber band or a fairly large o-ring also works.

 

[halocline]

The long hose primary donate system is necessary in cave diving and in limited space where one diver has to be behind the other. For rec diving the secondary donate offers some advantages. 1. You avoid the issues of wrapping around a long hose 2. The buddy can pull out my octo without asking me and without me swapping regulators 3. For non emergency and for practice you don't had the hygiene issue of pulling a mouthpiece from one mouth and donating to another.

As I've said before, and experienced twice, all it takes is one real OOA emergency to convince you of the folly of your arguments. OOA divers are very likely to simply grab the reg in your mouth, and you will be really impressed how fast they can move! Once this OOA diver has your 2nd stage, it's about 1000 times better to have a nice long hose tethering the two of you than a 30" 'standard' primary hose. Try it sometime, maybe with an agitated diver in some current and/or bad visibility.

Nowhere is the gap between training scenarios and reality wider than in the typical air sharing exercises in OW recreational classes.

Regarding the long hose 'wrap', if you use a proper length hose (I use 5' in open water) the routing is very easy, much more streamlined than the common big loop extending over the right shoulder, and much more comfortable because the longer hose is more flexible and allows more better head movement without the 2nd stage push-pull.

It's very difficult to argue logically against the use of primary-donate long hose in all diving, not just technical. The hogarthian guys really figured this one out a long time ago.

 

[extremetito]

@Marie13-I suspect when you started this thread, you were wondering if there was a new and wonderful solution that you might not have hard about yet to the octo holder question. Having done this research myself in the past, I wondered as well. After going through the responses here, there are a lot of great suggestions, but it doesn't appear that there's anything new or revolutionary. I use the holder recommended by @Bob DBF above and find it works very well for me-but this is not too different from a snorkel keeper, or the loop mentioned by @stuartv, or even the Trident octo holder you mention as an "abject failure" on your very first post. As others have wondered, what is the mechanical reason for this failure? What's your octo configuration? length of hose? type of mouthpiece? Maybe your solution lies in modifying some factor other than the octo holder (And by the way, I am not suggesting going to a bungee necklace).

 

[Storker]

OOA divers are very likely to simply grab the reg in your mouth

I've seen this argument more times than I can remember. What I haven't seen is data supporting it. OTOH, I've never experienced a buddy running out of gas either. Are those two things (negligently running out of gas, and panicking and grabbing any reg in sight) perhaps correlated?

 

[scubadada]

@Marie

Take a look at the Scubapro octo holder.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've seen this argument more times than I can remember. What I haven't seen is data supporting it. OTOH, I've never experienced a buddy running out of gas either. Are those two things (negligently running out of gas, and panicking and grabbing any reg in sight) perhaps correlated?

I have never experienced an actual buddy running out of gas, either. The closest I came to it was when I was in a group of diver on the Spiegel Grove in Florida. One of them had apparently not noticed she had put her gear on a near-empty tank, for she went out of air very early in the dive. When that happened, she very calmly swam over to her buddy and took the alternate from the keeper without giving a signal. We all then ascended together.

I was then working in a shop that had about a dozen instructors, and I asked them to recount their experiences. Only a few had had experiences with real OOA situations, and every one of those experiences was exactly as I just described--the OOA diver calmly went for the alternate.

There was a famous court case in which a DM refused to give air to an OOA diver. I also had a SB member tell a story via private message about being refused air at about 100 feet. In the first case the diver tried to get to the surface alone and drowned. In the second case the diver went to the surface alone and lived.

I think all things are possible, and I believe what will happen depends to a large degree upon how early in the process the diver makes contact with the buddy. If someone feels the breathing getting harder, looks down at the SPG and thinks, "OMG, I am about to go OOA," that person will arrive at a nearby buddy with pretty good control; the donor may even be treated to that calm signal we teach in class. If the diver does not notice until the inhale brings nothing and the buddy is 30 feet away, that diver is going to arrive at the buddy with a lot more eagerness about getting that air.

I used to read all the DAN fatality reports every year. Those reports have descriptions of all the fatal events for which they have information. I don't claim to have perfect recall, but I do not remember a single case in which a diver died after making a panicked mauling of a potential donor in an attempt to secure a regulator. Apparently such events are handled successfully enough that they do not often result in fatalities.

 

[Storker]

Another reason for me to continue my current practice of staying in close contact with my buddy. I'd rather risk a few fin bumps (yes, I'm guilty, and I've received a few myself) than risking being too far from my buddy if SHTF.

 

[Marie13]

Who refuses to give an OOA diver air? I can't get my brain around that one.