In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[Viscya]

Why aren't you people ante-ing up and paying this guy (RJP) to solve your problem and put your collective businesses in a more lucrative light?

Ray's a nice guy and capable diver, but do you seriously think that no equipment manufacture, certification agency, or dive retailer has ever contacted a marketing consultant before? I know better, I've been in work groups conducted by marketing research firms working for equipment manufactures. I'm sure the rest of the readers here are assuming the same thing. The research he's talking about has ready been done. The real question is, why was it not put to good use?

 

[Viscya]

It seems like a lot of the edgier open water diving is done in NJ. You are like the upteenth person to tell me that the more challenging charters run out of that area. I am going to have to figure out a way to get up there sometime soon.

On the other side, my buddies are trying to get me to go down to FL for some deep dives.

We have so many wrecks here, most boats try to go to a number of them and cater to a large range of diver. We have wrecks from 60 ft to 250 ft.

 

[Thalassamania]

Assumed: "The scuba industry" is a hundreds of millions or billions of dollars a year industry, to not put too fine a point on it. Why aren't you people ante-ing up and paying this guy (RJP) to solve your problem and put your collective businesses in a more lucrative light?
(RJP: "I'm not saying I KNOW the answer, but rather that I know how to

The scuba industry is tiny, in terms of equipment sales it ranks behind bocce ball.

 

[Scott L]

If there were an up-tick of new divers then all the discussion would be centered on the stresses to coral, animal life, increased cost of gases, etc. The hard working and smart will take a larger bite of a declining pie and the weak and un-innovative will perish...

 

[caseybird]

Competitive diving sounds awesomely boring to me.

 

[gcbryan]

If we're solving problems for Slonda828...NJ, NC, and Florida solve your needs. You might get more help if you didn't refer to everyone with experience as old people. People older than yourself are doing the things you want to do every day. They just may not be in Georgia with regards to diving and climbing.


DaleC, I think individual competition in diving does occur among tech divers in particular. Individual competition (competitive with self) is largely what drives climbing as well I believe (for me anyway).

I think there could be more talk of challenging dives. If you try posting anything like that now you mainly get cautioned not to do them by people who haven't done them. A little more tolerance in this area would be beneficial I'm sure.

I also think the concept of promoting what local diving you do have is the way to go. If all you have is a lake or quarry, sink something and at least you have something to look at and a reason to gain experience diving even if it's just a time filler until you can travel elsewhere.

Offthewall you seem to have a much better model than most dive shops.

I think the key is to make the industry better for those actually interested in diving rather than to be concerned with enlarging the industry beyond that. Most of the problems are because the industry (small though it is) is already much larger than active divers. Quality of the industry should be our concern (which is what much of this thread is about I believe). Retaining divers is a better way to "grow" the industry.

Climbing is not a huge industry either but it seems to be viable and work well for active climbers. Gym climbing in particular has parallels for diving as it's a very broad based market (although as Bob alluded to it isn't quite as broad as diving in that being overweight is the one aspect that does limit climbing participants) and I'm sure it has retained more active climber's since one can be active when the weather is not cooperative.

 

[Slonda828]

Competitive diving sounds awesomely boring to me.

I think the thing is that it is not for everyone, it does not have to be. Look at skateboarding. Lots of people my age skated when we were kids. Many of us, myself included, used to do it because we were too broke for bikes and we couldn't afford cars (and of course the tricks). Lots of us do not do it anymore (myself included). However, there some people who still do, and some who do it competitively. Skateboarding has become a wildly popular activity. Rob Dyrdek just helped a bunch of public skating plazas get constructed all over America. Skateboarders have the X Games to watch on TV, and the younger ones have role models in many of the professionals. They will continue to grow because the younger ones want to be like the older ones, an idea with which I am sure we are all familiar. The thing about skating is that there is something for everyone. You can just ride to school, you can do tricks, you can hitch rides on the back of cars, and it had a dedicated group of people associated with it.

Diving does not have that. I know some of you probably enjoy that fact. It is really a simple matter though. If you do not appeal to a broad range of people, then only a few will do it. Out of all those people who get certified to dive, a very small number actually become divers. If diving had a lifestyle associated with it, maybe things would be different. When I was a kid, skating or riding was who you were, not merely something to do. If diving could somehow capture that sort of essence, I think it would alleviate a lot of the problems that the industry is having. I bet gear would be cheaper as well. You cannot feed me that whole "diving is in the water so blah blah blah" line either. Look at freediving. It is not the largest sport ever, but you can do it for fun, for competition, or for all kinds of other reasons. There are special institutions where some of the most famous freedivers in the world (Martin Stepanek for example) will personally train you to be better. How amazing is that? We are kind of an oddity in that we have nothing like that, and every other sport in which I have ever participated does. I think for the older generation )), that was fine. For the younger generations, maybe not so much.

 

[Slonda828]

If we're solving problems for Slonda828...NJ, NC, and Florida solve your needs. You might get more help if you didn't refer to everyone with experience as old people. People older than yourself are doing the things you want to do every day. They just may not be in Georgia with regards to diving and climbing.

I do not for a minute discount that. I think if you think I am being condescending, then you are mistaking me. Maybe I should smother my posts in grinning emoticons.

I don't decry older people, after all, they birthed me. I am being tongue in cheek.

Furthermore my posts are not aimed at solving my problems. I currently dive as often as I want. I was just commenting on some of the reasons why I feel that diving is getting smaller. Things like customer service, custom charters, ease of access, internet based information, and selling diving as a lifestyle all work in other sports. I think that was really my point. I could ride my bicycle 3/10 of a mile to a dive boat right down the street from my house with my dive gear on my back, so believe me I do not ever want for diving. Now if you could move the AT about 150 miles south, you would definitely be doing me a favor

I agree with you though. I think diving needs to move toward quality over quantity. That means that diving will need to keep more people who are currently diving...well...diving. I think that some of the ideas I mentioned might be of at least some value. They work in plenty of other sports anyway.

As for the climbing allusion, climbing is not a gear sport. No matter how much gear you buy, you can't climb a wall if you are too overweight or you have bad technique. Maybe there is some way to translate that into diving, via minimalism or vintage diving perhaps. It is definitely more physically demanding to dive without a BC. Again, not for everyone, but it is just an idea. Divers were certainly more physically fit when two hose regulators were around (correlation not causation obviously). Maybe there could be charters for vintage and minimal diving, that would appeal to more people. Right now there is only one boat around here that lets me dive vintage gear, and thankfully it is the one down the street. Again, people dive vintage and minimal all the time, but we usually do it on shore dives or private boats. If dive boat operators wanted to capitalize on that, and dive equipment manufacturers wanted to make more money, there is that niche market as well. Anyway, enough about the diving industry I suppose. It will grow or shrink, and there is very little that I can do about it so there is not much use in focusing on it.

So who wants to go on the MV Spree December 11th? :cool2:

 

[DaleC]

Competitive diving sounds awesomely boring to me.

To me golf is awesomely boring but I bet Tiger isn't complaining about his market share. Business is business.

gc, you and I agree that diving should be made better. I am just responding to the question at hand.
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Here is one way to view the current diving market:

Training
Sales
Charters
Destinations

Making money in training is finite.
Sales are mainly finite.
Charters could grow.
Destinations could grow.

Most people who are feeling the pinch probably deal with the first two (bricks and mortar LDS's). A finite revenue stream is a tough row to hoe. The only way to survive is to continually generate new customers (grow the industry). How long does anybody think that can go on for. You can either grind yourself into the ground trying to "out compete" every other LDS out there for that finite dollar and resent the internet because it steals the dollar from you or you can think outside the box and create an ongoing revenue stream. I suggested one way, I'm sure there are others.

Here's another way to look at the diving market:

Pre teens
Teens
Young adults
Adults
Adults near/at retirement
The elderly

What things appeal to each segment? What do they want? How are other related products marketed to them? Who is being ignored? Why?

I know for example that one agency has a program named after a mammal. Did anyone ask modern preteens if that appeals to them. Do kids want to brag to their buddies at school about being a mammal? How are other products marketed to this segment of society?

Most teens can't drive to the ocean and don't take trips. Where can they dive? Would you attract the teen segment more if you had an indoor facility and marketed it to them? What if there were a cool clothing line attached to it?

Are young adults respected in the diving world or are they looked down upon as kids fresh behind the ears? Do adults listen to their opinions or are they marginalized? What type of diving appeals to them?

The next two segments have been targeted to death.

What about the elderly. Does the current dive industry offer anything worthwhile to them? So they can't dive (mostly) but they do spend tourist dollars. What about guided small sub tours on the reef? Who's doing that now? A huge market for Harley Davidson in my neck of the woods is retired old guys. Retired old guys! Back in the bad boy biker days who would have thought that was possible. Someone (who probably got a very big bonus) realised that that segment of society had a lot of disposable income and marketed mtorcycles to them. Visionary I say. Who's the visionary in the dive industry today?

Those are just some questions that could be asked if anyone really wanted to revitalize diving. I don't have all the answers but I do know how to think.

 

[Slonda828]

Are young adults respected in the diving world or are they looked down upon as kids fresh behind the ears? Do adults listen to their opinions or are they marginalized.

You do not even have to ask that one man. Ever crusty diver in the world that has 5,000 dives asks me if I'm old enough to be there or if I just go certified. It's like a badge of honor to be crotchety in diving for some reason. I think it is because it is an activity where you can be older )) and maybe not in the best physical condition and still be "good" at it. Most other things if you are in poor physical condition you are immediately bad at them and if you are old )) your body cannot endure the stress. Diving is one of those few things that you can hold on to as an elder elitist. I think it is also interesting that in things where you would expect people to look down their noses at you (climbing, rafting, hiking, etc.) very few people actually do. Even on here before I got my DM rating people used to immediately devalue things that I said because I was 29 and I was not an instructor, a DM, or a guy with over 1,000 dives. I think the really funny part is that unless you are all thumbs, diving normal dive profiles is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. We all make such a big deal out of it (myself included), and for the most part it is really quite simple. JMO.