In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[F106A]

Assumed: "The scuba industry" is a hundreds of millions or billions of dollars a year industry, to not put too fine a point on it. Why aren't you people ante-ing up and paying this guy (RJP) to solve your problem and put your collective businesses in a more lucrative light?
(RJP: "I'm not saying I KNOW the answer, but rather that I know how to FIND the answer. Anyone and everyone with my background does...it ain't that hard really.") Here's a guy who, for a few hundred thou ("You're gonna need a few thousand hats at that [$100/hat] rate!"), will put everything right. Five-hundred large or less? Sounds like a great investment. You don't believe me? ASK HIM! He'll tell you. Again. His job: “Making consumers buy stuff they didn't even know they wanted.” He was just part-time in the not-too-distant past; has that changed? If not he should have plenty of time and motivation to get-r-done. Go for it scuba dudes!

 

[Slonda828]

probably close to that.

I know that I got sick of the dive charters, so I went out and got a boat and now I dive the way I want to dive.

I don't have the ability to make a nice post so your reaction doesn't surprise me.

I don't have a problem with you wanting to approach diving the way you do, but I see very clearly that you are going to have a heck of time finding it.

I also see that you represent a big group of young people that want to approach diving in a very intense way, a way that the law-suit-land-of-USA can't handle it. I think is great that Wookie and you may look into this, but his boat advertises room for 24 diver.... Good luck getting all that people to do what you want, when you want.

This thread is about the diving industry, you are part of the diving community, so am I. You may like it or not but you are not the majority and neither I am, the people that requires babysitting ARE the majority so the odds of the diving industry catering to you or to me are very low.

The thing that you simply must realize is that every diver, every single one, drives the diving industry. Based upon my group of friends, I would say that we each spent 3,000 bucks for our full kit of initial open water dive gear. If my group of friends alone (maybe 10 of us) decided to not buy any dive gear, that is 30,000 dollars of lost sales. That is significant. That could pay a dive shop's bills for at least two months. Why do you think LDS are going out of business? The internet is not a ninja stalking the LDS down in the middle of the night, the internet is where we all (or many of us) buy our gear now. Pretty much everyone I know buys their stuff online. People in my age group are computer savvy. We know if we go online we can get exactly what we want, in the color and size we want, and it will be cheaper. The change in the diving industry has to be a big one in order for it to work. Charters need to change, the dive shop has to fundamentally change. Climbing places are an example of that. They all sell gear, have walls or wall access, and have a gym. They have to have these things because that is what climbers want, or they will go somewhere else. Dive shops and charters have to accept that what they are doing is not working anymore, and instead of complaining about "the way it was" they need to change.

Also, I should not have called you a curmudgeon, it was not appropriate. I apologize.

We just need to see that the individual diver matters. His or her wishes matter. He or she pays the rent of the LDS, and in turn the LDS buys gear from the manufacturer. Instead of cranking out more inadequate divers by saying that anyone with a pulse and no asthma can dive, why not appeal more to those that already dive? If I needed some new piece of dive gear to do something fun or challenging through my LDS, and my LDS actually had one in stock in the right color and size, and it wasn't marked up 25% more than Leisure Pro, I would buy it in a split second. It is now my job to be interested enough in the LDS to go to it. It is the job of the LDS to draw me.

 

[Thalassamania]

Wow, that sounds like a great time!

That's what makes a horse race, I think it sounds really, really, really boring.

 

[Slonda828]

That's what makes a horse race, I think it sounds really, really, really boring.

You are also a DSO, aquanaut, and many other interesting things. I would probably pay to do some of the things that you have already gotten to do for free.

 

[Ana]

Dive shops and charters have to accept that what they are doing is not working anymore, and instead of complaining about "the way it was" they need to change.

Also, I should not have called you a curmudgeon, it was not appropriate. I apologize.

Don't worry about it, no need to apologize.

I don't see dive charters accepting anything.... I fought them for about 6 years in Panama City until I gave up and got the boat, my requests were very simple

1- do not cancel on me for lack of divers the morning of the dive
3- let me do my 1 hour dive, and don't touch me or my gear.

If the charter boats see the light I may consider going back to them.


You are young and strong, is your fight now, I'll be watching

 

[Wookie]

We just need to see that the individual diver matters. His or her wishes matter. He or she pays the rent of the LDS, and in turn the LDS buys gear from the manufacturer. Instead of cranking out more inadequate divers by saying that anyone with a pulse and no asthma can dive, why not appeal more to those that already dive?

Because as Ana said, the charter operator or LDS MUST appeal to the least common denominator. I've made this point for years. And it sucks. I'd rather have Ana or AWAP on the boat (AWAP's dived with me 5 or 6 times) because I don't have to babysit them. Turn them loose and off they go. They are competent, come back to the boat when low on gas, don't bury themselves in deco, don't get lost, in short, they are GOOD divers. Unfortunately, a 24 passenger boat doesn't appeal to Ana, and AWAP will go to Coz rather than Florida based on price.

I like running 5 day trips. I get a feel for the divers competency levels. Almost all (75%) divers who come on the Spree (or any liveaboard) are better divers when they leave than when they got there. Of the remaining 25%, 20% were already top notch, 5% will never get better.

Here is why I have to babysit. A dive trip is an open trip. Anyone could sign up, pay their fee, and go diving. If a diver gets hurt, through my negligence or their incompetence or just plain accident, diving stops. The trip may end. You WILL lose some dives. The mood on the boat sours, and if you don't think I'm attuned to that, you need to think again. One person wants a refund for missing dives. If they are a real butthead, they want a full refund because their experience is lousy. Can I blame them? No, they had a lousy time on my boat. Can I refund them? No, not unless it's my or my crew's fault.

So, you want a private charter for you and 9 of your friends. I'll do it, and I'll price it. If someone is injured, well, it's a charter, which is different from an open boat. You paid one price to hire the boat, it's yours to do with what you want. If you want to take the boat back to the dock to heal one of your party, so be it.

So, I will cater to you and your nine friends, happily. I'll also put you and your GF on a trip and fill the rest of it. But don't be surprised when I treat the 2 groups of divers on the charter differently.

 

[Slonda828]

Because as Ana said, the charter operator or LDS MUST appeal to the least common denominator. I've made this point for years. And it sucks. I'd rather have Ana or AWAP on the boat (AWAP's dived with me 5 or 6 times) because I don't have to babysit them. Turn them loose and off they go. They are competent, come back to the boat when low on gas, don't bury themselves in deco, don't get lost, in short, they are GOOD divers. Unfortunately, a 24 passenger boat doesn't appeal to Ana, and AWAP will go to Coz rather than Florida based on price.

I like running 5 day trips. I get a feel for the divers competency levels. Almost all (75%) divers who come on the Spree (or any liveaboard) are better divers when they leave than when they got there. Of the remaining 25%, 20% were already top notch, 5% will never get better.

Here is why I have to babysit. A dive trip is an open trip. Anyone could sign up, pay their fee, and go diving. If a diver gets hurt, through my negligence or their incompetence or just plain accident, diving stops. The trip may end. You WILL lose some dives. The mood on the boat sours, and if you don't think I'm attuned to that, you need to think again. One person wants a refund for missing dives. If they are a real butthead, they want a full refund because their experience is lousy. Can I blame them? No, they had a lousy time on my boat. Can I refund them? No, not unless it's my or my crew's fault.

So, you want a private charter for you and 9 of your friends. I'll do it, and I'll price it. If someone is injured, well, it's a charter, which is different from an open boat. You paid one price to hire the boat, it's yours to do with what you want. If you want to take the boat back to the dock to heal one of your party, so be it.

So, I will cater to you and your nine friends, happily. I'll also put you and your GF on a trip and fill the rest of it. But don't be surprised when I treat the 2 groups of divers on the charter differently.

I like hearing this stuff from you. So a knowledgeable guy like you will learn about his divers. You know the ones who want to be left alone and the ones who (on some level, conscious or otherwise) want to be watched? That's awesome. I bet if the sixpacks started doing that I would go out on more of them.

Don't worry about it, no need to apologize.

I don't see dive charters accepting anything.... I fought them for about 6 years in Panama City until I gave up and got the boat, my requests were very simple

1- do not cancel on me for lack of divers the morning of the dive
3- let me do my 1 hour dive, and don't touch me or my gear.

If the charter boats see the light I may consider going back to them.


You are young and strong, is your fight now, I'll be watching

Those rules are both so amazingly simple. Have you ever considered running charters? I bet that there at least 6 independent divers out there who would love to dive off of your boat.

 

[Wookie]

You are also a DSO, aquanaut, and many other interesting things. I would probably pay to do some of the things that you have already gotten to do for free.

Stay in the race, young grasshopper. All things in time. As you show your competence (which doesn't come with 200 or 500 or 1000 dives), you get noticed, and invited to do things. The more you do, the more you are invited to do. The more maturity you have, the more you can do. Many many DSO's, aquanauts, staff divers are former military. Also, scientific divers pay their dues by doing 100 crappy boring fish counts for each exciting discover-new-species dive.

I am not belittling your age or experience, but getting invited takes time, competence, and maturity. You'll get there.

 

[redacted]

Assumed: "The scuba industry" is a hundreds of millions or billions of dollars a year industry, to not put too fine a point on it. Why aren't you people ante-ing up and paying this guy (RJP) to solve your problem and put your collective businesses in a more lucrative light?
(RJP: "I'm not saying I KNOW the answer, but rather that I know how to FIND the answer. Anyone and everyone with my background does...it ain't that hard really.") Here's a guy who, for a few hundred thou ("You're gonna need a few thousand hats at that [$100/hat] rate!"), will put everything right. Five-hundred large or less? Sounds like a great investment. You don't believe me? ASK HIM! He'll tell you. Again. His job: “Making consumers buy stuff they didn't even know they wanted.” He was just part-time in the not-too-distant past; has that changed? If not he should have plenty of time and motivation to get-r-done. Go for it scuba dudes!

Did you guys know Bernie?

 

[offthewall1]

It's the dive shop of the future because it's going out of business.

I'll have to disagree... We've just completed our second year in business - signed a new lease and we're the only dive shop in our market (that I'm aware of) whose 2009 sales topped 2008.

No sense posting stories about us that no one wants to hear or cares about... that's not what this thread is about and I won't turn it into a Hooray for Off the Wall thread...

The issues are too important. Those of you in the Baltimore market already know what we're doing. For those not in the Baltimore market - specifically dive shop owners out there reading this thread... here are some things you can do to drive all these caring customers to your store... build it, and they will come:

1. Have an internet presence. No need specifically to sell on the internet, but you must use google adwords, free campaigns, and other web driven ways to be at the top of the search engine for your local market. No one uses the phone book anymore, they search scuba on the web... be it google, yahoo, msn etc... Spend a few bucks on this and it will come back to you tenfold.
2. Match every internet seller on price... even if it means lower margins. The word of mouth doing this brings you in your local dive community will pay off.
3. Offer web shopping right on your showroom floor. When a customer is browsing, trying things on etc... pull up the price of the item on the cheapest web seller sites, show the customer and then beat the price - buy just $1.00 is all you have to do. Give them more off and they'll never go anywhere else
4. Embrace the internet, love the internet, don't bad mouth the internet
5. Stop using the terms gray market goods etc... no one cares
6.Greet every customer instantly upon entering the store, then let them shop uninterrupted. Greeting: Hi, I'm Ken - What's your name? (get reply.) the say, Welcome to (your store name,) if you need any help just let me know, I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. IMPORTANT - Every Customer.
7. Don't just certify them - befriend them. Don't hound them to take specialties or buy gear. Certify them, befriend them and invite them to dive with you whenever and wherever you or your staff are going diving.
8.Give stuff away - lots of stuff. Spend some of your advertising dollars on divers instead of putting it in the hands of newspapers, radio, tv or even the internet. Simply giving good customers - even the not so good customers on the spur of the moment... they're looking at something - really like it - but don't have the money - GIVE IT TO THEM. Deduct the cost from your advertising budget.
9. Put diving in front of as many people as you can. Talk about it everywhere you go to anyone that will listen. Invite them in to try scuba FREE.
10. Price things in your store. Price it intelligently. Don't price gouge. Where possible - blow people away. If your cost on an item is $50... and LP or someone else is selling it for $100... sell it for $70. This tiny profit will bring the customer back time and again... and they'll tell all the divers they know!

There is so much more we do... and I'm willing to share it with anyone who is willing to transform themselves from a shop of yesterday - into a shop of tomorrow.

I'm not out to make a gazillion dollars like the greedy I so like to talk about. I'm out to grow the sport... make an honest fair living... and teach others how to do the same.

I've shared just a little of what we do.... This is why we're the dive shop of the future... and this is why manufacturers, the big internet sellers, other LDS's and consumers are paying an awful lot of attention to us...

Peace