In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[Slonda828]

They cater to divers that require babysitters. I'm happy when they don't treat me like an idiot and you want super duper dive trips and no solo either, you want people to share the experience?

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't give a crap if you solo dive, I dive solo too, and I do not need a babysitter. If you think I do, then I will gladly drive down there, dive with you, and show you in person that I do not need a babysitter, a DM, or an old person telling me how I am as a person and I will do it with no malice and a smile on my face. I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. I like doing different activities because it is a great way to stay active without running on a treadmill like a guinea pig. I could personally care less if the industry as a whole goes away, it is not going to effect me as a diver at all. I have everything that I need to dive, and I could always charter a fishing boat or buy one if I really wanted one that bad. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I am saying. We were talking about why diving is getting smaller in the context of what customers think. I was offering my opinions. I do not have a vested interest in this, I was just participating in the conversation, and I was appreciative of the fact that Wookie was offering his thoughts.

I don't know where you drew your conclusions from, but they are wrong with respect to me. The idea that I would like a DM to know where we are going and a little of the history of the wreck has nothing to do with my ability to dive. It has to do with expecting the person in the role of the subject matter expert to be one. You expect your dentist to know how to look at teeth right? Well I expect a "professional" divemaster to be able to tell me how the wreck got there. That is part of what you pay for when you buy a dive charter.

The group of people I represent? You should be thankful, in ten or fifteen years when you are too old to dive, people that "I represent" are going to be running the government, the place you work, and the diving industry. We'll even be running your nursing home or be your live-in nurse. We'll also be your doctor.

Furthermore, if I did represent the average once in a while diver, then the industry should cater to me. That what industries do, they cater to the majority of people that buy stuff from them. If you are bitter because diving isn't the way it was when you used to do it all the time, then do something about it. That's what we are trying to discuss. I don't want a guy to change my tank for me or put my BC on me, I can do that myself. I want an expert, not a truck driver who spent 500 dollars and 4 days to become a professional diver.

 

[DaleC]

Slonda it's scary how simularly we think on issues. Good thing you have a GF and I'm married

I think part of the problem is also that it is hard to see the forest for the trees when you are in the middle of a problem. Just lke diving one tends to get tunnel vision and reverts to old instinctive solutions (even when they won't work). I have empathy.

I also don't think mine is the total solution. Just an interesting avenue that would yield results if the right person(s) put in the effort. Some surgeons thought washing your hands was a waste of time too (much to Garfields chagrin).

You are also right that it is a discussion about solving a problem. People need to take their personal feelings out of it. I didn't "like" sport climbing (was a Trad myself) but I saw the benefits it provided and the market it represented. To solve a problem like this one first has to brainstorm (without rejecting ideas), refine the options and then solve the details. Rejecting initial ideas because they present problems gets nobody anywhere.

 

[mdb]

As a former Marine I know that the call for the "Do you have what it takes?", "the few, the proud, the Marines" has worked for many a year. War, or no war, some folks, not all, want to take the challenge, see what they can do, get off the couch, etc.

Maybe we can get back to that with diving. It just might work.

 

[redacted]

Look around, the average charter doesn't cater to old farts that have been diving forever, they hate us. They cater to divers that require babysitters. I'm happy when they don't treat me like an idiot and you want super duper dive trips and no solo either, you want people to share the experience? oh yeah and you want it now or you'll go climb a wall..

I'm also in that OFD group but the operators I dive with at least accommodate my needs. I dive my plan. I dive my gas. And I dive solo if I prefer. I'm not at al hard to satisfy. But Ops that do not accommodate my desires don't get my money.

 

[Slonda828]

I'm also in that OFD group but the operators I dive with at least accommodate my need. I dive my plan. I dive my gas. And I dive solo if I prefer. I'm not at al hard to satisfy. But OP that do not accommodate my desires don't get my money.

I couldn't agree more with you. I am not saying that dive operators have to babysit anyone. If you want to solo, go solo. If you want to dive with no octo, I say do it. Sign a waiver of right to sue and dive happy. Hell, most of the time I only wear a BC because they make me. I think if you are an older diver, and you want to dive your way, that rocks. You should get what you pay for. I say that if I want to be able to schedule my trip online, and have all the information relevant to the trip be emailed to me in a PDF then I should be able to get that. We're both customers right? Our money is the same color.

Diving is one of the only activities that I do that is so regulated. I am a firm believer in the waiver. If you want to dive in vintage gear, sign a waiver. If you want no redundancy in your system, sign a waiver. I would gladly pack my doublehose regulator, a cotton harness, a steel 72, and that's it in my dive bag any day. Still, some boats will not allow me to dive without a poodle jacket, an octo, two masks, a computer, and a bunch of other crap. When's the last time you rode a ride at an amusement park and someone made you wear a helmet?

 

[Scott L]

I have not read too far back into the thread but it is my opionon that the diving industry has suffered simply due to a lack of institutional advertising. 25 years ago PADI and other enities advertised much more heavily with the emphasis that diving was a safe sport and that virtually every abled bodied person could soon master. I live in a huge market for diving and back then everyone was either already a diver or was soon contemplating becoming one. Now, most of the time when I brouch the subject with the general public they view scuba diving as an extreme sport fraught with danger declaring that they would nevertheless entertain the thought but cannot due to ear equalization issues. It is also my opionon that all the cave diving deaths years ago did not help the industry what-so-ever....Scott

 

[Wookie]

Where were you guys 2 years ago when this fell flat on it's face?

Ultimate Diver Challenge "The Biggest Event in Diving History" Cozumel, Aug 2008 - HOME PAGE

EDIT it still seems to be alive. They have 2010 planned. My apologies.

 

[Ana]

Who do you represent, the old bitter curmudgeon's association?

probably close to that.

I know that I got sick of the dive charters, so I went out and got a boat and now I dive the way I want to dive.

I don't have the ability to make a nice post so your reaction doesn't surprise me.

I don't have a problem with you wanting to approach diving the way you do, but I see very clearly that you are going to have a heck of time finding it.

I also see that you represent a big group of young people that want to approach diving in a very intense way, a way that the law-suit-land-of-USA can't handle it. I think is great that Wookie and you may look into this, but his boat advertises room for 24 diver.... Good luck getting all that people to do what you want, when you want.

This thread is about the diving industry, you are part of the diving community, so am I. You may like it or not but you are not the majority and neither I am, the people that requires babysitting ARE the majority so the odds of the diving industry catering to you or to me are very low.

 

[Wookie]

but cannot due to ear equalization issues. r....Scott

I always thought this was the fault of an impatient instructor. I've only taught about 200 OW students, but I've never had one fail to clear if you're patient with them. To be fair, I've never taught in cold or less than 50 foot vis water. I did have one lady who had to have the wax plugs removed from her ears from jamming q-tips in there, but that's for another thread.

The real issue here is instructors jamming out students. You'd think that with fewer and fewer students to teach, the large pool of instructors out there would have lots and lots of time on their hands. You'd think with the dropping standards (I no longer read the Undersea Journal or Quarterly updates, I get my teaching information right here) like not having to teach tables or buddy breathing anymore, those instructors would have all the time in the world to let nervous divers clear their ears...

 

[Slonda828]

Where were you guys 2 years ago when this fell flat on it's face?

Ultimate Diver Challenge "The Biggest Event in Diving History" Cozumel, Aug 2008 - HOME PAGE

EDIT it still seems to be alive. They have 2010 planned. My apologies.

Wow, that sounds like a great time!