In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[Thalassamania]

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price? I do not want to become an oceanographer, I just want to go dive a cool wreck once or twice a month that is new (to me at least). That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Maybe I will just have to start asking around and see if I can convince a charter boat to do this for me if I find enough people.

Still, in many, many other sports and activities, this kind of ability is already in place. If I called an outfitter tomorrow to find a guide to take me up Ranier, I could find one.

Yes, if you wanted to summit Everest, all you really need is the cash. The same thing is true about most dives, all you need is the cash, finding the other 5 divers, or funding the boat yourself, are just details that define what it going to cost you, the boats are there for hire, the support divers and such are there for hire, there are even experts that put such trips together, wherever you want to go, whatever you want to do, complete and turnkey ... it's just a question of cash.

 

[Zieg]

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price? I do not want to become an oceanographer, I just want to go dive a cool wreck once or twice a month that is new (to me at least). That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Maybe I will just have to start asking around and see if I can convince a charter boat to do this for me if I find enough people.
Still, in many, many other sports and activities, this kind of ability is already in place. If I called an outfitter tomorrow to find a guide to take me up Ranier, I could find one.

Yes, that is what you have to do. Operators are out there if you look. Sometimes you have to look really hard. Ask about some of the fishing charters. They sometimes go both ways. I've often had some of my best diving going out on a traditional fishing charter.

 

[Slonda828]

They'll do that now. It happens all the time.

A group of us here in Colorado want to dive into the hanger decks of the Oriskany, doing two dives that each require helium and decompression. No existing charter does that on its regular schedule, but we contacted one and are all scheduled.

If I had a group of people with me in Florida, I could get any of the wrecks I wanted in my example above. I just can't do it by myself or with a single buddy.

Maybe the trick then lies in developing some sort of network of people who are willing to dive these types of wrecks and such. I would also like to do the hangar deck of the "O", maybe I just have to face the fact that diving isn't really marketed toward people like me and find 4 other people to fill a charter boat. I am not just going to buy all 6 seats on a boat for 2 of us. I am a little too earthy crunchy to waste that much stuff logistically.

 

[RJP]

Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price?

I know of one in NJ...

In fact, you don't even have to ask, since we're running the trips you're looking for every Saturday and Sunday from Easter to Thanksgiving. The drive up to Brielle from St. Mary's is a bear though...

 

[Slonda828]

I know of one in NJ...

In fact, you don't even have to ask, since we're running the trips you're looking for every Saturday and Sunday from Easter to Thanksgiving.

RJ,

PM sent.

Also, shouldn't there be some sort of segment of the market for this? You are the marketing guy, shouldn't there be something in place for this type of diving? I mean hosting a web site spreading the word via boards and such wouldn't cost very much money. You can host a web site for pennies these days.

 

[OldNSalty]

As others have alluded to, there is a social aspect to diving that I think is too often ignored. My certification course was great IMO, but then once the cards were issued, the gear bought and sold, there wasn’t a lot of support from the LDS to keep people diving. Sure, they were an outlet to book a boat through but you were booking it and not knowing anyone else on the boat. I think if the shop had done a ‘let’s go do a local beach dive’ every month or a free, once a month seminar where they could talk about the latest stuff in diving, maybe offer some pointers but keep people together. I suspect that a larger % of people I got certified with would be still diving today if the shop had looked at the long term profits.
Then again, I am sure that some shops are doing this very thing. So maybe there is more than one solution.

 

[Wookie]

And some of us charter operators like that kind of diving, and schedule charters to do it. BUT, my schedule doesn't fit your schedule, or you don't really want to spend twice what a sport diver does to have half as many on the boat (to accomadate the weight of helium, O2, etc. etc.), or you aren't certified for the depths, or or or..... so, I end up running a half full boat which makes no money, and hear back after I write a trip report "How come you didn't tell me?" The kind of diving you want to do is out there, but you gotta go find it.

 

[Slonda828]

As others have alluded to, there is a social aspect to diving that I think is too often ignored. My certification course was great IMO, but then once the cards were issued, the gear bought and sold, there wasn’t a lot of support from the LDS to keep people diving. Sure, they were an outlet to book a boat through but you were booking it and not knowing anyone else on the boat. I think if the shop had done a ‘let’s go do a local beach dive’ every month or a free, once a month seminar where they could talk about the latest stuff in diving, maybe offer some pointers but keep people together. I suspect that a larger % of people I got certified with would be still diving today if the shop had looked at the long term profits.
Then again, I am sure that some shops are doing this very thing. So maybe there is more than one solution.

I agree with you. I don't go to any local dive club meetings because they never do anything. I don't frequent LDS because they just try to sell me stuff. Still, if there was a place to go to talk about diving, practice, BS, and workout, I'd pay to go there. Talking to people on the interweb isn't exactly as cool as having real people with which to hang out.

And some of us charter operators like that kind of diving, and schedule charters to do it. BUT, my schedule doesn't fit your schedule, or you don't really want to spend twice what a sport diver does to have half as many on the boat (to accomadate the weight of helium, O2, etc. etc.), or you aren't certified for the depths, or or or..... so, I end up running a half full boat which makes no money, and hear back after I write a trip report "How come you didn't tell me?" The kind of diving you want to do is out there, but you gotta go find it.

That's kind of my point though. In plenty of other sports, you do not have to do that kind of legwork. We are talking about why the dive industry as a whole is sucking hind teet right now, right? How hard would it be for charters to add stuff to their web pages that dictates rates for some deeper water or more exclusive wrecks with a higher price? I'll pay the money, I just don't know that I want to spend my limited free time scouring the world for 4 other people to get on the boat. If I am going to pay you for it, then you should provide that service for me. Putting a thing up on your website that says "bring me 6 divers and you have the boat" runs people off and does not make you any money. How hard would it be for a charter or shop to have an email list or a signup list of people for those type of events?

 

[RJP]

And some of us charter operators like that kind of diving, and schedule charters to do it.

I'm likely gonna be on one of those trips with you next year, with The Scuba Connection here in NJ!

 

[OldNSalty]

That's kind of my point though. In plenty of other sports, you do not have to do that kind of legwork. We are talking about why the dive industry as a whole is sucking hind teet right now, right? How hard would it be for charters to add stuff to their web pages that dictates rates for some deeper water or more exclusive wrecks with a higher price? I'll pay the money, I just don't know that I want to spend my limited free time scouring the world for 4 other people to get on the boat. If I am going to pay you for it, then you should provide that service for me. Putting a thing up on your website that says "bring me 6 divers and you have the boat" runs people off and does not make you any money. How hard would it be for a charter or shop to have an email list or a signup list of people for those type of events?

Hell Yes. Even for regular dives. I hate calling around when I should be able to look up a charter on line, see that you have a spot open and book my trip.

You call around and either can't find an open seat or they say 'Yea, we got a boat going out.' So you sign up and stop looking only to be called at the last minute and told 'no one else signed up so we aren't going.' ***? I was the only one and you couldn't have given me more warning!

OK, rant over...I'll go back to my hole now.