In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[Skooter]

Thanks Bob, IMO thats one of the most spot on avenues we need to pursue. We need to find local activities to keep our divers active. On average we lose 9 out of ten divers within a few years of certification. If we can increase the retention rate to even 5 out of ten it would be amazing. Farther down the road if those five are active and having fun it will draw alot more interst in our activities.

 

[Slonda828]

Well, I see we have vastly different views of diving. Maybe when I was in my 40s and still racing hare scrambles or hydroplanes, we could have this discussion.

I'm 63 and there is no way in the world I could be considered 'in shape' compared to someone in their 30s. The Atenolol alone makes certain I can't compete. I can struggle down the beach and dive around a little but certainly not the way I dove 20 years ago. My competitive days are long gone (except I still think about building another hydro - my wife objects. Loudly...).

But I'm good for the industry because my pensions pay for all of the dive related expenses for 4 divers. And we're all using top-of-the-line gear. Of the 4 of us, only my son-in-law would be qualified under your plan.

Years ago, I dove every week. Warm water, essentially uninhabited islands, lots of interesting dives. Now its cold water, wetsuit and once in a while.

But don't cast us aside just yet. Remember, we (the aged) have all the money.

Richard

Richard,

Nobody is casting you aside. The entire dive industry is built around you! You are the older guy with a family who has enough money. I think that is great. When I'm older, if I decide to have a family, I would do exactly what you are doing, and I think that is awesome. However, as for my age group, we have been cast aside. Nobody caters to my age group. There is no challenging charter around here where I can go do a dive that only people in my condition or training level can do. Where is the thing that appeals to me? It's like the entire dive industry is marketed toward people in your age and income bracket. Just to be explicit, I really think it is great that you are in your 60's and that you dive. I think nobody, myself included, should tell you how to dive. All I am saying is that if I want to be able to do harder stuff, why can't I? Where's the charter boat that takes you 2 hours out to sea to do that high current 125 foot wreck that not everybody can or will do?

I again defer to climbing. I climb 5.8-5.9 on the Yosemite Decimal Scale. That makes me a rank amateur compared to many climbers. Still, I get to climb my routes and they get to climb theirs. I aspire to climb their routes someday, but if it does not happen, then at least I was challenged. It seems like for open water diving that stuff just is not marketed.

It is getting to the point where I am willing to pay good money to go do something fun, but I spend more time climbing. I have dove the springs and the local charters so many times that I could recite most of their dive briefings. Where's the new stuff? I ask my girlfriend to go dive, and she just tells me that we are either going to end up at the springs or on one of two charters. Most of my Army buddies are tired of it as well. There needs to be stuff to do or people will stop diving. I never thought I would feel that way, but 150 dives later, here I am.

 

[Skooter]

Serious question for you:

Why do you care?

For my own selfish reasons. I did not become an instructor for the money. I did it for that wonderful feeling we all have felt when diving with someone who finally gets IT. That fleeting moment in the water when you see it in their eyes, they understand why you love to do what you do. At that point you have helped create another diver who is as passionate as you about our little secret.

 

[boulderjohn]

Nobody caters to my age group. There is no challenging charter around here where I can go do a dive that only people in my condition or training level can do. Where is the thing that appeals to me? It's like the entire dive industry is marketed toward people in your age and income bracket.

... if I want to be able to do harder stuff, why can't I? Where's the charter boat that takes you 2 hours out to sea to do that high current 125 foot wreck that not everybody can or will do?

I again defer to climbing. I climb 5.8-5.9 on the Yosemite Decimal Scale. That makes me a rank amateur compared to many climbers. Still, I get to climb my routes and they get to climb theirs. I aspire to climb their routes someday, but if it does not happen, then at least I was challenged. It seems like for open water diving that stuff just is not marketed.

A number of years ago I was talking with a dive operator in Cozumel that was originally aimed at the more extreme diving possible there. They had to change their plan. There just aren't enough people who wanted that to support them. If they had stayed with that plan, they would have gone out of business.

If there were enough people who wanted to do the dives you describe, then there would be operators who would cater to that market.

The difference between the dives you want and the climbs you want is that the dives you want require a support industry to make them possible, whereas you can pretty much take care of yourself in climbing.

 

[RJP]

The first thing the scuba "industry" needs to do is stop considering other scuba businesses as their competitors and realize that they're competing against all those other activities for people's discretionary dollars.

I like where you're going, though don't just think dollars. Think about what people are REALLY wanting to buy with those dollars!

Did some work a while back that involved looking at who the main competition was for a certain well-known, iconic American motorcycle brand. Care to hazard a guess at who the main competition was in their most valuable customer segment? The client was shocked. I was not. Mostly because I'm never shocked, because I go into these sorts of things with no pre-conceived idea of what the answer is, and I always find out the WHY and not just the WHAT. The result of this approach is that, a.) you're never shocked, b.) you actually find out the truth, and c.) what to do about it becomes abundantly clear.

I'm not convinced that "growing" means attracting more divers. Improving the retention of those who are currently getting certified might be a better place to focus our attention.

Man, you are "2 for 2" today in terms of swerving into the truth and still not even knowing just how right you are! What you're missing is that this is not an "either/or" proposition. The dirty little secret from a marketing standpoint is to determine up front what types of folks are most likely to be "retained" once they are certified and then go about ATTRACTING more of them. It's obvious that the whole "learn to dive today" and "resort course" approach of much scuba marketing is going to attract instant-gratification "been there, done that, what's next" types...arguably the worst possible customer segment. And there's really nothing that you can do to "retain" them since you were lucky to get them in the first place.

There are easy ways to determine who the BEST customer segment is (easiest to turn on, more likely than average to stay with it, non-price sensitive) and then target those people.

 

[Slonda828]

A number of years ago I was talking with a dive operator in Cozumel that was originally aimed at the more extreme diving possible there. They had to change their plan. There just aren't enough people who wanted that to support them. If they had stayed with that plan, they would have gone out of business.

If there were enough people who wanted to do the dives you describe, then there would be operators who would cater to that market.

The difference between the dives you want and the climbs you want is that the dives you want require a support industry to make them possible, whereas you can pretty much take care of yourself in climbing.

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price? I do not want to become an oceanographer, I just want to go dive a cool wreck once or twice a month that is new (to me at least). That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Maybe I will just have to start asking around and see if I can convince a charter boat to do this for me if I find enough people.

Still, in many, many other sports and activities, this kind of ability is already in place. If I called an outfitter tomorrow to find a guide to take me up Ranier, I could find one.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here's another example...

It's been a few years since I dived the wrecks off of the Pompano, Florida coast, but when I did go there on vacation, I was always frustrated. The local operators would post their dive schedules weeks ahead of time, and it was always the same basic sites over and over an over again. If you wanted to memorize every nook and cranny of the Sea Emperor, a barge in 70 feet of water, you were in luck, but if you wanted any of the more interesting wrecks in about 100 feet or so, they weren't on the schedule.

I thought I had the problem solved when I called an operator weeks in advance and talked him into putting some of those sites on the schedule while I was in town. He did, but he warned me it was tentative. Sure enough, he canceled each one of them because I would have been the only diver each time. So I got to see the Sea Emperor again.

Operators have to stay in business, and they don't stay in business by aiming at a tiny customer base.

 

[cerich]

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price? I do not want to become an oceanographer, I just want to go dive a cool wreck once or twice a month that is new (to me at least). That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Maybe I will just have to start asking around and see if I can convince a charter boat to do this for me if I find enough people.

Still, in many, many other sports and activities, this kind of ability is already in place. If I called an outfitter tomorrow to find a guide to take me up Ranier, I could find one.

do what tech divers has been doing forever, buy all the seats on the boat, pay extra for the fuel and go do your dives. It cost $$$ no way around it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price? I do not want to become an oceanographer, I just want to go dive a cool wreck once or twice a month that is new (to me at least). That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Maybe I will just have to start asking around and see if I can convince a charter boat to do this for me if I find enough people.

Still, in many, many other sports and activities, this kind of ability is already in place. If I called an outfitter tomorrow to find a guide to take me up Ranier, I could find one.

I happen to live in a place that probably has more tech-certified divers per capita than most dive destinations ... and it's much more difficult to put together a tech charter here than a recreational charter. The numbers just make it more difficult.

Last time I was in Bonaire I wanted to do a tech dive on the clipper ship. Tried all week. Talked to a number of different operators. Couldn't make it happen ... because I was the only client, and they needed more than one.

There ARE avenues of diving for people like you ... deep wrecks and caves should be able to be able to give you all the challenge you need. But you need to go where that type of diving is available. You won't find it in the typical resort community.

And it won't appeal to the vast majority of people who want to go diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I understand all of what you just mentioned. Answer me this though, how hard would it be for a charter boat operator to have a policy that says if you find me 6 divers that are trained and qualified to do a harder dive, then I'll find you one if you are willing to pay X price?

They'll do that now. It happens all the time.

A group of us here in Colorado want to dive into the hanger decks of the Oriskany, doing two dives that each require helium and decompression. No existing charter does that on its regular schedule, but we contacted one and are all scheduled.

If I had a group of people with me in Florida, I could get any of the wrecks I wanted in my example above. I just can't do it by myself or with a single buddy.