Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...

[Bob DBF]

Why? Better to practice better gas management techniques, carry a pony bottle, make sure you can drop your weights if needed.

You practice CSEA for the same reason you would any other skill.

As far as dropping weights, at depth you are going to be doing a CSEA or buoyant ascent, dependant on configuration, whether you were planning on it or not.


As has be said before, the CSEA is the last in a list of emergency procedures for dealing with OOA, before a buoyant ascent. If done properly, it will put you on the surface unharmed if you are within NDL limits. When I started diving it was used regurally by new divers who had no SPG, j-valves that got knocked out of position, or k-valves, untill they learned how long the tank would last. It's not needed now, unless one finds themselves OOA without a handy backup, which is a poor time to learn an emergency procedure.


It has no effect on me, as I was trained and make a practice CESA on a regular basis. It might make a difference to a new diver who has panic to fall back on in an emergency, which I have rarely seen to have good results.

Because one knows an emergency procedure does not mean you have to use it. I have a pony bottle that I have never used in an emergency, should I just stop carrying it altogether?



Bob

 

[Marie13]

Does carrying a pony carry the possibility for injury that practicing a CESA does? I thought I’ve read some agencies have done away with them, but I can’t remember which one.

 

[Tribal]

I thought I’ve read some agencies have done away with them, but I can’t remember which one.

Cmas did do it in the past in in some countrys, That is what i did hear atleast.

 

[The Chairman]

I thought I’ve read some agencies have done away with them, but I can’t remember which one.

NASE doesn't do them in OW (horizontal in the pool only) and I believe RAID has joined them in that.

 

[Storker]

Cmas did do it in the past in in some countrys

Up here, the local CMAS agency is quite agnostic about ponies. They don't teach them in the standard ladder, but AFAIK they don't condemn them either.

Me, I don't want to faff with a pony as long as I'm not diving solo (which I never do). I prefer vetting my buddies and adjusting my dive when I fail vetting my buddy properly.

 

[Marie13]

Up here, the local CMAS agency is quite agnostic about ponies. They don't teach them in the standard ladder, but AFAIK they don't condemn them either.

Me, I don't want to faff with a pony as long as I'm not diving solo (which I never do). I prefer vetting my buddies and adjusting my dive when I fail vetting my buddy properly.

We were actually referring to CESA.

 

[Storker]

We were actually referring to CESA.

Sorry.

AFAIK CESA has been taken out from our national CMAS syllabus both for 1* and for 2*. But we had to do a simulated CESA when I took my 3* (equivalent to PADI DM plus some more) this spring.

 

[Diving Dubai]

How would it have worked from 70'? Personally not too concerned about doing it from 27' myself though I sure hope to never have to do so.

In theory you can do it from 70' some of the old timers will tell you how they learnt' from much deeper

From my personal experience of doing it for real from 20m (Laryngospasm not OOA) - it's a long way up. For me I was in crystal clear waters of the Red Sea, I can't imagine if your were in limited dark vis

People forget that when they practice CESA, they do so on a full breath. The reality is, that you'll only know you're not able to breath after you've exhaled and try to inhale.

People can debate all they like about CESA from the safety of an air breathing environment, but the reality is very different when your diaphragm is heaving, trying to inflate your lungs, you're kicking hard to ascend and trying not to succumb to the desire to stop and close your eyes...

Practice CESA's really only "teach" technique. IRL you don't have time to get yourself together whilst breathing, then taking a gulpful of air and making a tiny ascent from 6-9m

More realistic practice would be to turn someones air off at 20 m/60' preferably without them knowing. While making great Gopro footage for Youtube, I'm not certain it would ever become a recognised standard

 

[Dan_P]

More realistic practice would be to turn someones air off at 20 m/60' preferably without them knowing. While making great Gopro footage for Youtube, I'm not certain it would ever become a recognised standard

A practical way around it is to just order them out of gas and note if they "sneak in" another breath.
The footage is splendid for debriefing and education purposes, but I would not advise to put it on Youtube

 

[Ayisha]

How would it have worked from 70'? Personally not too concerned about doing it from 27' myself though I sure hope to never have to do so.

One of our local coroners, Dr George Harpur, who is also a long time diver, instructor, and chamber doc, has given many talks about safety concerns and practical tips for diving. He initially told me nearly a decade ago in regard to an Ontario resident's fatality, that most people would not be successful in doing a CESA from any considerable depth because they would likely go unconscious long before they reach the suface. Dr Harpur said the main reason is that by exhaling all the way up, the brain becomes oxygen starved and people pass out before trying to take a breath. He said you have to periodically try to inhale on the ascent, even if you don't get anything yet, and that action is enough to help keep you conscious. His opinion is also that real CESA's are often done too slowly from significant depths, and victims often go unconscious and drown, when they may have survived and been bent or not. He has done several talks in Toronto giving that same information.

I was not completely sold on the faster ascent, but in an emergency, I guess it is better to be bent than dead. Of course a successful CESA would also require remembering to keep an open glottis. Like others, I prefer to have and follow my dive plan, keep on top of my gas management, have redundancy when prudent, and stay with my reliable dive buddy.