Let's see what you can write on a French forum about diving, then !
Besides, in French, moral is the correct spelling, when you mean "morale" in English, so making a mistake is easy.
I'm seeing a lot of second hand rebeathers sale recently, something going I'm not aware of, as I'm tempted to get one.
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Let's see what you can write on a French forum about diving, then !
Besides, in French, moral is the correct spelling, when you mean "morale" in English, so making a mistake is easy.
Jona Silverstein
Contributor
Based on the limited profile length on SB, I am going to start at the top and work down.
Rebreathers are EXPENSIVE, training is EXPENSIVE, and you will be putting your life in your own hands as if you are standing on train tracks.
As others have noted you will find plenty of used units for sale all the time, the more you look, the more you will find. and if you get in the habit they will spread like flies (partly how I ended up with 9...)
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If you are NEW to rebreathers, you should FIRST ask WHY you want a rebreather, THEN look in your direct vicinity and see WHO is diving WHAT, and who is offering TRAINING.
Its all too common to see keyboard warriors going online to find the "best CCR ever!" getting caught up in spec sheets, capabilities, redundancies etc. Doing this often leaves behind the WHY you are getting into CCR to begin with, if you truly do not have a specific reason for going CCR that isn't "I wanna be like the cool kids" then DONT buy a rebreather. end conversation
So you have a real reason for a CCR, now look at who around you is diving CCR and find out what rigs they are diving, who did their training, and their genuine feelings about their course and if they felt it or their instructor was lacking.
If most people come back with more or less the same answer for those questions it should be a pretty clear fit, the people around you doing similar styles of dives to you, utilizing the same rig or style of rig, and they haven't voted out the instructor. It may be the best option to follow their path. This will provide you with hopefully more than one character to lean on and learn from, help with service and parts, and an instructor that will make you enjoy the rig.
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You've settled on a rig, an instructor, and timeline of events to get yourself diving silent. Now and only now can you start perusing the forums looking for that rig and asking your instructor if they feel the rig is in appropriate condition. At the end of the day you will find many of these rigs found online may have been modified from their stock configs, ask for the stock parts if they still have them as most GOOD instructors will not train you on a non-stock rig for liability purposes.
At the end of the day we all have to eat. Your instructor will more than likely charge you more to train you on a used rig than a new one as they will have to take extra care servicing the rig prior to use but YRMV.
---
Don't be that guy that buys a random rig off the internet and kills themself trying to DIY learning CCR.
Rebreathers are EXPENSIVE, training is EXPENSIVE, and you will be putting your life in your own hands as if you are standing on train tracks.
As others have noted you will find plenty of used units for sale all the time, the more you look, the more you will find. and if you get in the habit they will spread like flies (partly how I ended up with 9...)
---
If you are NEW to rebreathers, you should FIRST ask WHY you want a rebreather, THEN look in your direct vicinity and see WHO is diving WHAT, and who is offering TRAINING.
Its all too common to see keyboard warriors going online to find the "best CCR ever!" getting caught up in spec sheets, capabilities, redundancies etc. Doing this often leaves behind the WHY you are getting into CCR to begin with, if you truly do not have a specific reason for going CCR that isn't "I wanna be like the cool kids" then DONT buy a rebreather. end conversation
So you have a real reason for a CCR, now look at who around you is diving CCR and find out what rigs they are diving, who did their training, and their genuine feelings about their course and if they felt it or their instructor was lacking.
If most people come back with more or less the same answer for those questions it should be a pretty clear fit, the people around you doing similar styles of dives to you, utilizing the same rig or style of rig, and they haven't voted out the instructor. It may be the best option to follow their path. This will provide you with hopefully more than one character to lean on and learn from, help with service and parts, and an instructor that will make you enjoy the rig.
---
You've settled on a rig, an instructor, and timeline of events to get yourself diving silent. Now and only now can you start perusing the forums looking for that rig and asking your instructor if they feel the rig is in appropriate condition. At the end of the day you will find many of these rigs found online may have been modified from their stock configs, ask for the stock parts if they still have them as most GOOD instructors will not train you on a non-stock rig for liability purposes.
At the end of the day we all have to eat. Your instructor will more than likely charge you more to train you on a used rig than a new one as they will have to take extra care servicing the rig prior to use but YRMV.
---
Don't be that guy that buys a random rig off the internet and kills themself trying to DIY learning CCR.
Learner Diver
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- Messages
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- Reaction score
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- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
Let's see what you can write on a French forum about diving, then !
Besides, in French, moral is the correct spelling, when you mean "morale" in English, so making a mistake is easy.
No I truly loved your phrase, it is how I think, wrote how I write
having also added a brilliant document on consuming morality
I laugh at myself, I laugh uncontrollably as I am climbing back onto the boat, I laugh on SB, I am happy
If you choose to jump on the coat tails of others moral outrage, consider I don't do childish stupid stuff
Gone for diving
Contributor
Is there any statistics on this?
Wonder how common it is.
Probably was pretty high before internet was hugely popular.
(Late 90s ish) I am thinking,
But say the last 10 years what's the rate of people self training and or dying?
That would be a difficult number to find. I started with a SCR back in the mid 90's and trained on it. Then I went to the dark side and highly modified my unit to a full CCR and have never looked back. I took no further official training. As regards helium, I always dive a helium mix. IT WOULD COST MORE for me to dump it for anything else.
What amazes me is diving fads. When I first dove my rbr in a cave I had a group of adv cave divers stick around hoping for an assist to a body recovery. A few years later fully half the divers were diving rbr's. The latest fad is side mount. What will be next?
Rebreathers do have their uses for sure. That said, they are not for everyone. Anyone who is prone to short cuts will be a Darwin candidate.
What amazes me is diving fads. When I first dove my rbr in a cave I had a group of adv cave divers stick around hoping for an assist to a body recovery. A few years later fully half the divers were diving rbr's. The latest fad is side mount. What will be next?
Rebreathers do have their uses for sure. That said, they are not for everyone. Anyone who is prone to short cuts will be a Darwin candidate.
justinthedeeps
Contributor
There are many Facebook groups where rebreathers are posted for sale
What's the difference between a mint used unit and a new one? The basic architecture for many units has not changed, but the inflation went up, at least in the US. Perhaps 10% off the new unit price is a bit dreamy, but ~20% is quite acceptable.
justinthedeeps
Contributor
What you are saying here is a typical conventional wisdom, so I can't just disagree with it...
But why buy a used one with tens or hundreds of hours on it, when you could get a brand new one, never used, direct from factory with full warranty and support, any new updates, completely un-breathed spotless clean throughout (lungs and hoses, DSV, fittings etc), never been wet, better resale future value, and front row status for only a 10% to 20% premium?
60% of retail would be more realistic starting point for anything properly used, maybe 80% if it is less than 50 hours. I guess some advantages could be convenience, not having to pay tax on it, being able to buddy up with the seller/do them a favor, depending location/circumstance.
Owners/sellers like the dream that it looks/operates the same as when new, then it should be tradable for near equal what we paid. But it is a depreciating asset, in an evolving market. Owners got 10s or 100s of hours of use out of it--you don't get that for free. The warranty is over. Longer-term issues now have a head start. Future resale on this unit will now be lower, for the new owner. The clock has already ticked for a year+ (or five years) on long-term support, availability of parts, current instructors, and compatible, fresh dive buddies. The [expensive] computers are probably outdated now, versus ones you get with a new unit.
The "like new" logic is a fallacy for above reasons. Sellers just thinking about themselves. Wise buyers shouldn't buy that.
The buyer is comparing prices between used units. Not your unit versus its original retail price.
I have seen instructors/reps sell used same-year units at or near retail. But they can do this because they brought the unit somewhere--like in a remote country--and here it is, yours today, with no easier way to get a 'new' one quickly. In that case, they are actually offering something unique to the buyer.
If there are many more of these 'mint' 3-5(+) year old rebreathers for sale than there are actual buyers, that pushes prices down for anyone committed to sell. Sellers could list at $8k and refuse lower offers all year and earn nothing, or just take one of the ~$4k offers and be done with it, $4k richer today.
If 50% of current rebreather divers buy a new rebreather, and they all try to sell their old one, there won't be enough buyers at $5k+ for all of them. Either the prices come down, or there are a ton of "no sale" and people stuck with multiple units. Whoever is most motivated to sell is going to set the used market price.
The upshot is, the user base needs to increase. If overall sales go up, producers sell more new units, the people lusting for upgrades pony up a net ~$5k+ ante for that, and their older units go at a realistic discount (like half off original price) to people who would love to get into the game for like $3-4k all-in. Ready-to-dive, screw this new "price before computers" nonsense (Kiss Sidewinder was playing that BS, if I recall)
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