I'm asking for advice about a Canon S110 and strobe YS01 problem

[world_traveler]

Hello Nemrod,

Yes, your camera and strobe work well together and alone. My set doesn't. I checked the photos again, unfortunately I didn't confuse the compensation, so there is a problem somewhere.
Thank you again for trying to help.

 

[KeithG]

Hello Nemrod,

Yes, your camera and strobe work well together and alone. My set doesn't. I checked the photos again, unfortunately I didn't confuse the compensation, so there is a problem somewhere.
Thank you again for trying to help.

I have gotten confused. Did you determine that the camera all by itself did not work as expected?

 

[hsinhai]

I'm following this thread with great interest. I have the exact same setup S110 (in meikon housing) w/YS-01.

I never had much luck with the TTL mode, and so have reluctantly been using manual which leads to frustration with so many other things going on.

I have found the TTL will work most frequently if I point the strobe directly at the object (so object is right in the center of the beam.. not ideal).. if the strobe was off even a little so not right in the center, I would just get a full dump every time no matter on the surface or underwater, leading to a total whiteout.

So my success rate of using TTL was about 1 in 10.. I recall using/trying both Av and Tv, i shoot mostly Tv these days w/manual strobe, i sort of recall because Av fixed to 1/60 shutter speed which I thought was too slow.. maybe just my newbie-ness..

I am going to revisit TTL to see if i can get it working correctly and try some of the advice mentioned above in the thread.

 

[world_traveler]

I had 3 pictures with unexpected exposure when using exposure compensation and I know that the set isn't working as well as Nemrod's. In the week-end I'll do again all the tests and then maybe I'll arrive to a conclusion.

 

[hsinhai]

So interestingly I believe most of my issue was with the sync cord... I found manual the strobe would always sync correctly, but when using TTL it was all over the place. Looking at the amount of light coming out of the end, it appeared low. I re-trimmed both ends and polished the surface, now the light coming through the sync cord is much brighter, and my strobe is firing reliably giving me green light after green light.. which I never got before..

While at it I also re-did the masking of my flash inside the housing. The meikon housing already has the rubber boot protecting light from reaching the lens inside the housing.

Image below are in AV mode, ISO-80, exp 1/60sec, and represent f2.0; f2.8; f4.0; f5.6; f8.0


As far as other settings, I've used the following:
AF Frame: 1 point
AF Frame size: small
Continuous AF: on
Touch shutter: off
AF assist beam: off
MF-point zoom: on
Safety MF: off

Flash mode: auto
Flash Exp Comp: 0
Shutter sync: 1st curtain
Red eye: off
Red eye lamp: off
Safety FE: off

 

[world_traveler]

I did again all the tests in an organized way :
1. the camera is ok,
2. the TTL in AV mode doesn't work as well as Nemrod's, there is a difference in exposure when I change the aperture.

What is left is to try to find someone who lives close to me and has a Canon housing or the same set so we can compare the function of each of the components of the set.
Thanks everybody again! I'll continue to follow the thread, maybe somebody will come with an idea....


hsinhai, in my opinion the TTL didn't work well in the photos you attached. Maybe there were different problems and you solved part of them, but in your pictures too the exposure isn't constant and if the file names are right and the ISO and shutter speed are constant, there is one more problem as the brightest one is with f8 which is the smallest aperture.

 

[Nemrod]

I am so glad to hear that some progress is being made. However Hsinha it does appear you have a similar issue. The near subject exposure should be similar (though not exactly) the same. The far/background of course will change. The first four exposures are reasonably similar and the one at f8.0 is gone. Hmmmm.

What were the strobe settings? Considering the Canon programming likes 1/60 in Av mode the camera is using the flash to compensate by increasing it's output as you stop the lens down. You should see in f2.0 a very weak flash output and as you stop the lens down progressively to f8.0 you should see, noticeably, increased output from your strobe. I can even hear the pop get louder!

I am not sure how to help you but none of the digicams I have owned over the last few years, Olympus and Canons, behave like that with the Inon strobe in sTTL. I know the YS is a great strobe.

N

 

[hsinhai]

Newbie dumb question.. In the manual it says

"
The DS-TTL system on this strobe is a slave TTL system with flash dimming functionality. This system is useful for when

you are using another main strobe that can pre-flash such as a camera's built-in TTL flash or another TTL strobe that is

connected to the camera.

"

Does this mean I should be using by camera's pre-flash? as the YS isn't doing the preflash, and so not trying to mask it in the housing? Right now I have it setup so the camera strobe is masked not reaching the subject.

 

[Nemrod]

Newbie dumb question.. In the manual it says

"
The DS-TTL system on this strobe is a slave TTL system with flash dimming functionality. This system is useful for when

you are using another main strobe that can pre-flash such as a camera's built-in TTL flash or another TTL strobe that is

connected to the camera.

"

Does this mean I should be using by camera's pre-flash? as the YS isn't doing the preflash, and so not trying to mask it in the housing? Right now I have it setup so the camera strobe is masked not reaching the subject.

Guys, for your simulated TTL to function, the YS version is dTTL and Inon's is sTTL, the same thing, you must have your cameras in an Auto exposure setting, Av, Tv or Program. You MUST also have your camera flash set to Forced ON and in the Menu (button) there is a choice for Auto flash or Manual flash. You MUST choose Auto.

Then on your YS strobe you must set it to the pre-flash mode which occurs when you select dTTL mode by defualt. Then set the strobe to Full, if the output is over exposed then reduce the output until you are happy with the result. Once you have it dialed in as long as the conditions are similar (back ground, subject matter, distance, ambient lighting etc.) you should get consistent exposures but if the image is under or over exposed, just readjust the output.

Canon S/G cameras, all the manuals I have read, JFYI, in Av and Tv you can select no pre-flash on your camera's flash in the Menu, by choosing Manual flash power settings, usually LOW just to use the the camera flash as a trigger. In which case your YS strobe must be in Manual as well. The Program mode always defaults or overrides your selection and provides a pre-flash. That is why I asked World Traveler to set Program mode on his camera. Your YS strobe will function in Manual exposure with the single lightening bolt chosen (no pre-flash) and your camera exposure in Manual or in Av/Tv with the camera flash set to Manual (and LOW to conserve battery power).

The d/sTTL strobe mode MUST have a camera with Auto flash exposure functioning and that means there will and must be a pre-flash. You cannot get d/sTTL function with any Inon or YS strobe even if the strobe is set to d/sTTL unless the camera is set in an exposure mode and flash setting that provides auto flash compensation and the resulting pre-flash.

Hope that is clear as mud.

N

 

[hsinhai]

I have everything setup correctly on the camera and strobe itself, it is in auto and the strobe power is adjusting strength, I can hear the difference in pop... just something is not 100% right. You saw the F8.0 being totally over exposed.

My question was whether the camera's internal strobe is required to hit the subject for the TTL to function correctly or not, or does it make no difference. The way I read it, it would seem the YS01 manual suggests it should.

If I totally mask the internal flash (how I had it in the past) except for route to my sync cord, and I believe the YS01 is not replicating the pre-flash, wouldn't the camera receive no feedback from the pre-flash (well determine from dark scene feedback that it need a big discharge) and plan initially to give a bigger discharge, until feedback of the real exposure? or does the pre-flash acheive nothing.. I mean there must be a purpose...

Alternatively, if i don't mask the internal flash, then the preflash would still feedback, which has to be a good thing. Camera understands it needs to discharge less and the YS01 fires during the real exposure, camera gets feedback of real exposure of both strobes still and shuts off as necessary.

Very interestingly, I did another quick test.. If I remove my camera from the housing.. hold the sync cord upto my internal flash (so covering about 1/2 the window), and so both strobes hitting the subject I get what I would consider really good/consistent results.. with the YS01 still always firing, with green light.

Anyway, I'm starting to think the issue is something to do with the pre-flash.. but that is just a hunch.

---------- Post added June 15th, 2015 at 01:12 PM ----------

The d/sTTL strobe mode MUST have a camera with Auto flash exposure functioning and that means there will and must be a pre-flash. You cannot get d/sTTL function with any Inon or YS strobe even if the strobe is set to d/sTTL unless the camera is set in an exposure mode and flash setting that provides auto flash compensation and the resulting pre-flash.

Hope that is clear as mud.

N

Hi Nemod,

Really appreciate your comments/assistance. It's just this bit. Yes my camera does have a preflash.. but is that pre-flash needed mostly for the strobe to work in TTL or is it more importantly also needed as feedback to the camera sensor during the pre-flash to determine roughly the amount of discharge the camera will make.. and can this lack of pre-flash feedback to the camera sensor be the cause for the variations in TTL exposures