If you were to design your own OW course, how would it go?

[TMHeimer]

Maybe %10. The point is not to have them ready to rescue others. The goal is to give them the competence to dive safely so they'll never have to be rescued. Every class is tailored to the student's needs and wants. No two are alike, though some skills that were "optional" have become the norm for my class. Buddy breathing two lengths of the pool for an instance. There's no requirement for it, but the demeanor it imparts to my students is amazing. This is especially helpful with nervous Nellies as it helps them to calm down a lot. A whole lot. Respiration slows noticeably after this exercise and their ability to learn increases.

Again, agree with your points. But what do you do if you are a new (or even experienced) diver without any rescue skills, and are paired with a similar instabuddy on a charter who suddenly panics? Let him die? Try to help him without knowing the proper procedures? That could've been me when I shore dived with my fellow newbie in my first 50 or so dives. We knew nothing about rescuing each other.

 

[The Chairman]

But what do you do if you are a new (or even experienced) diver without any rescue skills, and are paired with a similar instabuddy on a charter who suddenly panics?

He'll tire soon enough. Rescue him then.

This is where the DIR mantra "don't dive with Strokes" makes sense. I have called a dive before I got into the water due to an accident waiting to happen.

 

[TMHeimer]

He'll tire soon enough. Rescue him then.

This is where the DIR mantra "don't dive with Strokes" makes sense. I have called a dive before I got into the water due to an accident waiting to happen.

Well, let's leave it at that. Guess that's a rare point I disagree with you on. I would prefer that all OW cert. graduates know what to do before he tires--and possibly starts to go under, possibly reg out and inhaling some water. As well, I would guess a huge number of divers on charters will not call a dive even if they did get paired with an "iffy" buddy. I wouldn't have as an OW diver. Basic rescue training in OW changes that, I would think. I know relatively little about NAUI, but applaud them for making it a requirement.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Most do have horrible trim and buoyancy and I know because I've seen it. A whole lot of it. I don't despise them, but I lament their instruction. This whole notion that it "takes a hundred" dives to get your trim and buoyancy to a competent level is a lie. IF you teach it correctly, there's no need for an OW diver to struggle with maintaining their trim and buoyancy to the point they don't bounce off of the reef or can't get down so they can enjoy it. It's a ten-minute discussion about the physics of diving and then its application in the pool from beginning to end. It's not rocket science: it's submarine science. If you don't understand it, and it's not that hard, then how can you hope to succeed?

Many (most?) instructors can't or won't teach trim and buoyancy because they simply don't understand them and their connection. They might teach buoyancy apart from trim, but that's a fool's errand. The Budha hover is a parlor trick and nothing more. You can't really have buoyancy without trim and most instructors have horrible trim. How do I know? I see them dive with their students, head up, foot down trying to look cool but not setting a great example. Sometimes they turn around so they can supervise their students going through the water. Oh my, how cool that you can Scuba backward... NOT. Your feet are dangling and your head is up. You HAVE to be overweighted to swim like that and not rocket to the surface. Monkey see, monkey do! How can an instructor hope to teach when they aren't setting a great example? Odds are that can't set a great example. Odds are 10 to 1 that they don't even know it's a bad example. Stupid is as stupid learns. Stupid learns as stupid teaches. Worse: they probably got this from their IDC and feel like they are great divers.

No, I don't despise anyone, let alone the poor OW diver white-knuckling through their dive, totally out of control, missing most of the cool stuff, sucking air like a hoover, sculling like they're swatting flies (lots of flies at that) and wondering if or when it will get better. I pity that no one has taken the time to show them just how simple and easy Scuba can be when you start with being trim. Dive and let dive is my motto, so I let them struggle as much as they want to until they give up on diving or kind of figure it out. But I won't let my students go through that crap. No, no, no. They've come to me to learn how to have fun underwater. Their safety and fun are my responsibility and I take that charge very seriously. I teach by setting the right example all the time. They respond by diving like me with trim and buoyancy good enough to take a cavern course with.

A big pet peeve of mine is overweighting, which I personally believe to be the root cause and a little gremlin behind so much bad buoyancy.

I was an OW class victim of being at least 10 to 15 lbs overweighted. Me and everyone else in our class had so much weight on and so much air in our rental BC’s (to counter the weight) that just to stay on the surface they were so inflated it was ridiculous. They wanted us heavy so (a) we would sink easily (like a rock), and (b) we would stay planted on the bottom. But then trying to achieve neutral bouyancy was very difficult because it required so much air in the BC, and the depths we were in the 15 to 20 foot range, so everyone was like a yo yo trying to maintain a steady depth with a constantly expanding and contracting air bubble. And there was a slight swell running that day so it made it worse. A few people got a urchin spines in their knees and legs as I remember. It was a nightmare.
I didn’t know any better, I just thought it was part of scuba.
Instructors are the leaders right? They’re the pro’s. You do what you’re told when you’re new.

It wasn’t until months later that I ran into a guy (not an instructor) who straightened me out on how to properly weight. It made ALL the difference in the world.

 

[TMHeimer]

A big pet peeve of mine is overweighting, which I personally believe to be the root cause and a little gremlin behind so much bad buoyancy.

I was an OW class victim of being at least 10 to 15 lbs overweighted. Me and everyone else in our class had so much weight on and so much air in our rental BC’s (to counter the weight) that just to stay on the surface they were so inflated it was ridiculous. They wanted us heavy so (a) we would sink easily (like a rock), and (b) we would stay planted on the bottom. But then trying to achieve neutral bouyancy was very difficult because it required so much air in the BC, and the depths we were in the 15 to 20 foot range, so everyone was like a yo yo trying to maintain a steady depth with a constantly expanding and contracting air bubble. And there was a slight swell running that day so it made it worse. A few people got a urchin spines in their knees and legs as I remember. It was a nightmare.
I didn’t know any better, I just thought it was part of scuba.
Instructors are the leaders right? They’re the pro’s. You do what you’re told when you’re new.

It wasn’t until months later that I ran into a guy (not an instructor) who straightened me out on how to properly weight. It made ALL the difference in the world.

I bounced around some during my checkout dives too. But shortly after the course I got myself properly weighted by doing the standard weight check that was in the manual (I think).

 

[DanTay]

Absolutely agree. But the actual skills you learn in Rescue course IMO are very important and basic. Aside from the preventative and self rescue stuff, you learn stuff like exactly what to do with a panicking buddy on the surface. The mechanics--what to try first (yell at him to inflate/drop weights), spin him to face you, establish buoyancy (knee cradle?)--If that's not gunna work, approach uw and release weights. And other stuff like bringing an unconscious diver up, rescue breaths while towing, etc.
That is why I would probably have taken an extended OW course that included Rescue. I think we all agree that everyone should take Rescue -- "Greatest course I've ever taken", etc. But I would guess the vast majority don't.
No doubt extended OW courses adding more hours working on buoyancy and trim to avoid rescue situations would be another reason I may have taken such a course. It's of course best to be skilled in buoyancy to avoid rescue scenarios--but what if they do happen, and with two new divers who have good buoyancy but don't know the rescue drills?

The required number knee of dives required for o.w.

 

[DanTay]

The required number of dives for o.w. And a.o.w. Is ridiculous! You can be an advanced o.w. Diver with less than 10 dives! It isn’t not responsible wording,nor a sensible amount of dives for certification. Going back to the initial what would you have if you designed an oW course, I would ahave the rescue skills, without a doubt that it such an i,portent skill to have. I would also change the depth for 10 meter max for under 10. Dives. Also at least 15. Dives for certification.

 

[TMHeimer]

The required number of dives for o.w. And a.o.w. Is ridiculous! You can be an advanced o.w. Diver with less than 10 dives! It isn’t not responsible wording,nor a sensible amount of dives for certification. Going back to the initial what would you have if you designed an oW course, I would ahave the rescue skills, without a doubt that it such an i,portent skill to have. I would also change the depth for 10 meter max for under 10. Dives. Also at least 15. Dives for certification.

Good points here. Of course you'd have to also get into the old discussion of what AOW means and how it's name should be changed, etc (let's not.....). I really like the shallow dive idea for under 10 dives. Of course, not enforceable unless you're on a boat, nor is any "recommended" depth limit.

 

[boulderjohn]

A big pet peeve of mine is overweighting, which I personally believe to be the root cause and a little gremlin behind so much bad buoyancy.

I was an OW class victim of being at least 10 to 15 lbs overweighted. Me and everyone else in our class had so much weight on and so much air in our rental BC’s (to counter the weight) that just to stay on the surface they were so inflated it was ridiculous. They wanted us heavy so (a) we would sink easily (like a rock), and (b) we would stay planted on the bottom. But then trying to achieve neutral bouyancy was very difficult because it required so much air in the BC, and the depths we were in the 15 to 20 foot range, so everyone was like a yo yo trying to maintain a steady depth with a constantly expanding and contracting air bubble. And there was a slight swell running that day so it made it worse. A few people got a urchin spines in their knees and legs as I remember. It was a nightmare.
I didn’t know any better, I just thought it was part of scuba.
Instructors are the leaders right? They’re the pro’s. You do what you’re told when you’re new.

It wasn’t until months later that I ran into a guy (not an instructor) who straightened me out on how to properly weight. It made ALL the difference in the world.

I fully agree. I think something like this happens more often than not in OW instruction.

I bounced around some during my checkout dives too. But shortly after the course I got myself properly weighted by doing the standard weight check that was in the manual (I think).

The standard weight check is supposed to be a part of the OW class. It is supposed to be done in the pool, and it is supposed to be done on every one of the checkout dives. When a student leaves class without having done the standard weight check, it is a violation of standards. As I said above, I believe that happens more often than not because the instructor has to get the student anchored to the bottom when doing instruction on the knees.

 

[TMHeimer]

I fully agree. I think something like this happens more often than not in OW instruction.

The standard weight check is supposed to be a part of the OW class. It is supposed to be done in the pool, and it is supposed to be done on every one of the checkout dives. When a student leaves class without having done the standard weight check, it is a violation of standards. As I said above, I believe that happens more often than not because the instructor has to get the student anchored to the bottom when doing instruction on the knees.

On every OW course I assisted, it was done, though I don't recall for sure if it was done when I took OW with the same shop. It may have been skipped due to it being November weather, where time in the water can't be too long. If that were the case, the solution is stay within standards and just don't do winter checkouts. If it had been done, perhaps our bouncing around on the first dive or two was just inexperience with a BC inflator.
Whether a weight check is done or not, it's just not that hard to adjust your weights and/or fix your buoyancy problems in your first 5 dives or so post OW course. If that's a problem there is probably something else not up to par.