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A lot of people who learned to do things a certain way believe that is the way it had to be done according to standards. There are actually very few standards for HOW specific skills are done. I once saw someone insist that if when demonstrating setting y

So it does not appear in writing? It is a secret standard?

Apparently my CD never got the message. Before I became an instructor, I assisted in many classes with many instructors. as a DM and an AI. None of them did that.

I’ll follow up with that question as I would like to know.
 
Which standard does this violate?
Not a violation in PADI standards,perhaps with SDI or other agency it is. I have been teaching PADI courses 40 plus years and recommend a regulator in mouth , not required in standards, but conditions student to keep an easy airway to breathe and makes uw scuba removal, replacement easier later in course.
 
Was the CD conducting PADI IDC or was this a SDI CD?

PADI. He has a 5 digit number.

I did go back just now and looked at the PADI OW DVD. In the video for donning the scuba kit at the surface, the demonstrator does have a snorkel in her mouth at all times.

So, the question is, is this a critical attribute? How does PADI define what are and what are not critical attributes in a skill? If a critical attribute is not demonstrated, does that mean automatically a standards violation? I believe yes, but I'm asking to find out more.

Now, my intent was just to share a bit of my experience, for the OP to relax, slow down, and focus on what is important and they will be fine. My understanding that this is a standards violation per my CD. Now this statement is true for every single agency, from PADI to SSI to NAUI to GUE to name your agency. There are great instructors, great instructor trainers / course directors, and there are let's just say not so great ones. My CD is in the former group. I'm not saying that any of you that your CD was in the latter group. I'm going to keep digging, as this is a generic question that applies to all agencies. What is required in skills demonstrations such that standards are met. These are painful details. Some could say "it is what you see in the videos." Since a picture is worth a thousand words, is a video worth a million?

with hopefully more answers
 
PADI. He has a 5 digit number.

I did go back just now and looked at the PADI OW DVD. In the video for donning the scuba kit at the surface, the demonstrator does have a snorkel in her mouth at all times.

So, the question is, is this a critical attribute? How does PADI define what are and what are not critical attributes in a skill? If a critical attribute is not demonstrated, does that mean automatically a standards violation? I believe yes, but I'm asking to find out more.

Now, my intent was just to share a bit of my experience, for the OP to relax, slow down, and focus on what is important and they will be fine. My understanding that this is a standards violation per my CD. Now this statement is true for every single agency, from PADI to SSI to NAUI to GUE to name your agency. There are great instructors, great instructor trainers / course directors, and there are let's just say not so great ones. My CD is in the former group. I'm not saying that any of you that your CD was in the latter group. I'm going to keep digging, as this is a generic question that applies to all agencies. What is required in skills demonstrations such that standards are met. These are painful details. Some could say "it is what you see in the videos." Since a picture is worth a thousand words, is a video worth a million?

with hopefully more answers
Your CD has a 5 digit number, does not make him right. I have 4 digit number. Does that make me right?
 
Your CD has a 5 digit number, does not make him right. I have 4 digit number. Does that make me right?

Come on. My point is that he just didn't start yesterday. He's been at this since 1987. This is why I said there are a range of CD's/IT's of various quality across all agencies. He's definitely one of the good ones. I said I'm continuing to press on this.

Let's not bicker.
 
I contacted my PADI regional director, LeRoy Wickham, and asked him about whether or not keeping the snorkel in the mouth for this exercise was a standard. This is the reply he gave me:

Definitely not a standard although many Instructors require student divers to keep their airway protected during training by having the snorkel or reg in. It is a recommended habit for many instances when diving, but not a requirement. During IE demos most Instructor candidates are describing what they are doing as part of their demonstration on this skill and would not have the snorkel in.

From my 19 years as an examiner I have never heard that a candidate or those playing student divers at an IE where required to have a snorkel in during gear removal and replacement at the surface. Never part of my examiner training nor part of examiner meetings.

So it appears as if your CD was mistaken.
 
So it appears as if your CD was mistaken.

Would you mind asking
I contacted my PADI regional director, LeRoy Wickham, and asked him about whether or not keeping the snorkel in the mouth for this exercise was a standard. This is the reply he gave me:

Definitely not a standard although many Instructors require student divers to keep their airway protected during training by having the snorkel or reg in. It is a recommended habit for many instances when diving, but not a requirement. During IE demos most Instructor candidates are describing what they are doing as part of their demonstration on this skill and would not have the snorkel in.

From my 19 years as an examiner I have never heard that a candidate or those playing student divers at an IE where required to have a snorkel in during gear removal and replacement at the surface. Never part of my examiner training nor part of examiner meetings.

So it appears as if your CD was mistaken.

John,

Would you mind to ask LeRoy about how in PADI's Guide to Teaching, Instructor Development, Commonly Encountered Problems, page 208, #28 Scuba Kit Removal and Replacement on the Surface, last bullet point:
  • Failure to keep snorkel or regulator in the mouth.
I would be quite interested to know how performing in demos a commonly encountered problem listed specifically in PADI's training materials isn't a standards violation.
 
I would be quite interested to know how performing in demos a commonly encountered problem listed specifically in PADI's training materials isn't a standards violation.
Standards are listed in the manual under standards for the course. If it is not listed in the standards, it is not a standard.

The Guide to Teaching is a collection of suggestions. There is no requirement that anyone read it, let alone follow it.
 
Standards are listed in the manual under standards for the course. If it is not listed in the standards, it is not a standard.

The Guide to Teaching is a collection of suggestions. There is no requirement that anyone read it, let alone follow it.

Okay, let's just agree to disagree here, as the Course Director, whomever who trained him, various IE's see it differently than you, LeRoy, and other equally qualified people at PADI.
 
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