Idea for accountability

[MXGratefulDiver]

For the second time *today*... you're reading to much into this.

What I'm reading is terms like "incompetent" and "idiots".

It smacks of elitism ... and is completely uncalled for.

I've got a novel idea ... let's try having a conversation without the assumption that anyone who doesn't know what you know is an idiot.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Spectre]

Every way is fallable if you want it to be.

The systems that I have seen that -work- have more than one point of failure. You get a number. You use that number to board the boat, they write your name on a clipboard next to your number. As you are getting in the water, the captain stands there and asks your number. He writes the time and you jump in.

You get out of the water, and he's there again. "Number?" , writes down your exit time.

They pull anchor and run down the list, calling out the numbers in order so you can answer in the affirmative that you are on the boat.

 

[chickdiver]

Not really- most recreational dive boat captains are "paper captains"- knowledge wise they are little better than bus drivers. They simply provide conveyance to the dive site and nothing more. Same holds true for deckhands. I will grant you that this is not ALWAYS the case, but it often is.

Personally I would rather charter a sportfishing boat (those guys know how to drive a boat) over a recreational dive charter nine times out of ten.

 

[cornfed]

What I'm reading is terms like "incompetent" and "idiots".

It smacks of elitism ... and is completely uncalled for.

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with elitism. I has to do with diver operators that leave people in the water. You know, like the guy in CA that you made mention of.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Again ... it's a stereotype.

Ya know ... the ironic part of this whole discussion is that the charter I know who uses the system I mentioned is run by a guy who's a GUE instructor (RJ Meyers). If you wanna call him an idiot, or incompetent, I'll be the first to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cornfed]

Ya know ... the ironic part of this whole discussion is that the charter I know who uses the system I mentioned is run by a guy who's a GUE instructor (RJ Meyers). If you wanna call him an idiot, or incompetent, I'll be the first to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about ...

Let me be very blunt with you... I'M SPEAKING IN GENERAL TERMS!

When I said

This assumes the guy with the clipboard is competent.

I meant just that. The system won't work if the guy with the clipboard is an idiot. I don't care who you know that uses this system. I meant what I said. If they guy with the clip board is a moron the system will not work. Period. End of story. I didn't say the system was a priori flawed.

I didn't make any snide comments about someone that you know that happens to use that particular system. So please stop twisting my words.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not really- most recreational dive boat captains are "paper captains"- knowledge wise they are little better than bus drivers. They simply provide conveyance to the dive site and nothing more. Same holds true for deckhands. I will grant you that this is not ALWAYS the case, but it often is.

Personally I would rather charter a sportfishing boat (those guys know how to drive a boat) over a recreational dive charter nine times out of ten.

I'm sure things are different in Florida than they are where I live ... probably due to the sheer numbers you're dealing with down there. Here, I've only ever met one boat captain I'd consider less than competent. Fortunately, he no longer conveys divers to dive sites.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I didn't make any snide comments about someone that you know that happens to use that particular system. So please stop twisting my words.

Don't mean to be twisting your words ... but it would be nice to have a conversation once in a while without someone inferring that someone else isn't capable of the simplest things ... it just gets real tired after a while.

The resolution is really simple. If you think the captain or deckhand are incompetent (or idiots, or bus drivers, whatever), don't get on their boat. If you do get on their boat, follow their rules. They're usually there for a reason.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jhelmuth]

Here's a really unique idea on accountability!

Be a stand-up kinda guy (or gal as appropriate)! You got the mannuals and information when you took your OW - right (even if you didn't speciffically talk about it in class, you had the material and you've learned that there is risk)?

So don't try to blame others when you are at fault, and if the blame goes to more than one of you, be a big person and admit your fault/error - even if no one else does.

Don't tell me you don't know! That's the very basis of life - if you don't know - find out!

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Different type of diving calls for different approaches. I'm talking charters who drop rec divers off on reefs ... not cavers who overfill their cylinders and plan hours-long deco obligations.

Having a properly staffed and trained boat can often mean devising systems that accommodates people who are recreationally trained, with logical assumptions about what these people know and don't know.

As for your question ... check back a few weeks ago when a guy was left at sea for 5-1/2 hours off the coast of CA and picked up by a bunch of Boy Scouts on a sailboat. The guy's buddies answered affirmative when the DM called out his name at the end of the dive. I guess they thought it was funny ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm somewhere in the middle of your span. I don't cave, but I'll do decompression dives of reasonable duration if necessary to compete the dive's objectives.

I still don't see how much more you need to say than "We use this system to account for people. Don't answer for your buddy under any circumstances."

The morons you've described probably would have done it no matter what was said. People like that deserve to be put on the "Full Boat" list.

So perhaps a better system would be a white board with a check box. You're checked off when you enter and when you exit.