IDC to MSDT in About Two Weeks...

[elmo6s]

Having just done the IDC/IE I would recommend either taking a break in between or just waiting until you have 25 certs to do the specialties... I found it to be a tiring course, at the end of which I felt like I needed a rest. I had an absolutely fantastic CD - Jean-Michelle at Scuba Fun in St. Maarten - and we were really prepared for the IE (lowest in-water score for the 8 of us was 4.7 out of 5!) - but just keep in mind that you will have been working and studying for a while before you even get OWSI, so maybe plan a few extra days for pleasure diving at the end, and if you feel up to MSDT, you can do it... Just my $.02

 

[GA Under Water]

I know that since they removed night diving from the mandatory AOW dives it's possible for a diver to become an instructor without ever having dived at night. According to PADI, that instructor is still considered "qualified" to teach night diving in AOW should a student choose it as an elective. That still amazes me.

You have to have Documented Night dives to get DM with PADI. So, it only goes to say that you have prior Night dives before IDC and on.

 

[Bubble Junky]

You have to have Documented Night dives to get DM with PADI. So, it only goes to say that you have prior Night dives before IDC and on.

True, but remember you can crossover to be a PADI Instructor without being a PADI DM.

 

[Ron Brandt]

Learning to teach five specialties in warm water is going to do very little for you when you come home to teach. Do your instructor training in the water you plan to teach in, it'll pay off in the long run.

I did my instructor training in Fl. Sure the weather was warm but my dives were done in a lake with very similar conditions to what we have have here in the summer.

My specialties were of the experience type of 20 dives per specialty done in the water I teach in....It did however take me a year to cert the 25 divers for my MSDT. I still do not have a cert to teach ICE but have well over 75 ice dives but do not teach it on principle...that being I do not like the cold anymore and really hate making the hole.

Ron

 

[shadragon]

I did my instructor training in Fl. Sure the weather was warm but my dives were done in a lake with very similar conditions to what we have have here in the summer.

My specialties were of the experience type of 20 dives per specialty done in the water I teach in....It did however take me a year to cert the 25 divers for my MSDT. I still do not have a cert to teach ICE but have well over 75 ice dives but do not teach it on principle...that being I do not like the cold anymore and really hate making the hole.

Love it... Chain sawing the hole, dragging the ice blocks out and then shovelling the arrows can certainly take the fun out of being on an ice sheet in sub-zero weather... When the chain saw dies the fun really begins... hahaha

I suspect I would have 4-8 OW certs a year as an instructor so that would take over 4 years to get the experience here. That was one of the reasons for my looking into a more rapid program. I have the 20 dives each for Drift, Deep, Enriched Air and Dry suit. Over half way for Night, Navigation and Search and Recovery, so it would not take long to get them.

Thanks for the comments all. Very helpful...

 

[Steve R]

I suspect I would have 4-8 OW certs a year as an instructor so that would take over 4 years to get the experience here. That was one of the reasons for my looking into a more rapid program. I have the 20 dives each for Drift, Deep, Enriched Air and Dry suit. Over half way for Night, Navigation and Search and Recovery, so it would not take long to get them.

Thanks for the comments all. Very helpful...

Dude, I think you need to re-evaluate why you want/need to do this MSDT thing at all.

It's clear it's one of many useless agency created rungs designed to fleece YOU, the instructor of even more money whiel you're still wet with the IDC/IE just behind you.

Remember...sell 'continuing education", it's right in there in every classroom, and they're doing the same thing to you...the "Education" being a stretch here.

It's absurd to even contemplate the idea that an instructor is qualified to run an AOW class, but not ready to run any specialty from the required dives.

That's is totally absent of any common sense, which is to say typical agency programming.

The problem here is the level of knowledge and skill that is allowed to instruct new divers is so damn low, it's become rather obvious that we have the blind leading the blind, and they think that this crap actually makes sense.

The only OC specialty that's worth anything off the top of my head, is the Nitrox class, as there's precious few places that will allow someone a nitrox fill without a card. Remember, they're buying access with a card. You don't need a boat card to get on a boat, and what fool would pay for something like that anyway? Ditto for most of the other Specialty ratings.

I think you should take that MSDT money and invest in the instructor rating of the Nitrox class, and stop worrying about the rather stupid classes such as boat diving, PPB etc.

If you have the best interest in your students in mind you'll teach them what they need to know during the OW and AOW class, which again are pretty much required to gain trouble free access to most rec diving these days.

If someone wants to learn more about diving a drysuit, and you know how, then dude, take them out. Make a deal to compensate you appropriately and stop feeding the BS machine. There's nothing stopping you from giving pointers or aiding the learning process for a fee. There's nothing stopping you from running non-cert workshop or classes on your own.

Sure, there'll be whiners with all sorts of excuses why you can't or shouldn't. So let them whine, who cares. Tell them to stay back at the farm, there's a stall with thier name on it already.

If you really think you need or require a one week course to figure out these specialties, you need to re-evaluate the idea that you're even ready to instruct at all. Don't look to the agency for the right answer here as if you've got money, you're in. I've seen complete non-divers become Instructors. The agency simply has no clue what teaching diving is all about. They sell books and access and 300 levels of certs because there are people out there that will buy it.

This is clearly agency lead BS, and the fear/need-factor instilled into you is at full scram right now.

You need to decide whether you're going to sell access or sell diver training. The sooner you figure out the difference, the better off you and your students will be.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Dude, I think you need to re-evaluate why you want/need to do this MSDT thing at all.

It's clear it's one of many useless agency created rungs designed to fleece YOU, the instructor of even more money.

It's absurd to even contemplate the idea that an instructor is qualified to run an AOW class, but not ready to run any specialty from the required dives.

That's is totally absent of any common sense, which is to say typical agency programming.

The problem here is the level of knowledge and skill that is allowed to instruct new divers is so damn low, it's become rather obvious that we have the blind leading the blind, and they think that this crap actually makes sense.

The only OC specialty that's worth anything off the top of my head, is the Nitrox class, as there's precious few places that will allow someone a nitrox fill without a card. Remember, they're buying access with a card. You don't need a boat card to get on a boat, and what fool would pay for something like that anyway? Ditto for most of the other Specialty ratings.

I think you should take that MSDT money and invest in the instructor rating of the Nitrox class, and stop worrying about the rather stupid classes such as boat diving, PPB etc.

If you have the best interest in your students in mind you'll teach them what they need to know during the OW and AOW class, which again are pretty much required to gain trouble free access to most rec diving these days.

If someone wants to learn more about diving a drysuit, and you know how, then dude, take them out. Make a deal to compensate you appropriately and stop feeding the BS machine. There's nothing stopping you from giving pointers or aiding the learning process for a fee. There's nothing stopping you from running non-cert workshop or classes on your own.

Sure, there'll be whiners with all sorts of excuses why you can't or shouldn't. So let them whine, who cares. Tell them to stay back at the farm, there's a stall with thier name on it already.

If you really think you need or require a one week course to figure out these specialties, you need to re-evaluate the idea that you're even ready to instruct at all. Don't look to the agency for the right answer here as if you've got money, you're in. I've seen complete non-divers become Instructors. The agency simply has no clue what teaching diving is all about. They sell books and access and 300 levels of certs because there are people out there that will buy it.

This is clearly agency lead BS, and the fear/need-factor instilled into you is at full scram right now.

But Steve, on your website (http://www.niagarascuba.ca/) you list Boat Diver as one of the specialties you teach. What gives?

 

[Steve R]

I don't. Notice there are no links? What's in a boat diving course anyway? lol.

I teach divers what they need to know (as I've said) during an extensive AOW class which you will see a link for. It also happens to be on the more expensive side around here, as that is what is required to teach a thorough course. It keeps the tire-kickers away too.

I also (since you're browsing) run my own workshops and classes which have no cert attached to them (as I've also said). I teach for compensation for me, not any agency. If they get anything from it, it's merely an incidental consequence. I use them when it's appropriate for my students access, leave the training to me, thank you very much.

I am the one putting the time in and giving dive instruction, and not simply access. For someone that wants to (for instance) learn to dive a dry suit, you can rest assured I'll take them out, but they won't be getting a card, and they know that up front, and odds are good it won't be for free.

My apologies to the agency apologetics.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[GA Under Water]

I don't. Notice there are no links? What's in a boat diving course anyway? lol.

I teach divers what they need to know (as I've said) during an extensive AOW class which you will see a link for. It also happens to be on the more expensive side around here, as that is what is required to teach a thorough course. It keeps the tire-kickers away too.

I also (since you're browsing) run my own workshops and classes which have no cert attached to them (as I've also said). I teach for compensation for me, not any agency. If they get anything from it, it's merely an incidental consequence. I use them when it's appropriate for my students access, leave the training to me, thank you very much.

I am the one putting the time in and giving dive instruction, and not simply access. For someone that wants to (for instance) learn to dive a dry suit, you can rest assured I'll take them out, but they won't be getting a card, and they know that up front, and odds are good it won't be for free.

My apologies to the agency apologetics.

Hope that clears it up.

Do you fill them in that LDS's will not honor the "Steve-O" certification that lacks proof of Agency training?

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I don't. Notice there are no links? What's in a boat diving course anyway? lol.

I teach divers what they need to know (as I've said) during an extensive AOW class which you will see a link for. It also happens to be on the more expensive side around here, as that is what is required to teach a thorough course. It keeps the tire-kickers away too.

I also (since you're browsing) run my own workshops and classes which have no cert attached to them (as I've also said). I teach for compensation for me, not any agency. If they get anything from it, it's merely an incidental consequence. I use them when it's appropriate for my students access, leave the training to me, thank you very much.

I am the one putting the time in and giving dive instruction, and not simply access. For someone that wants to (for instance) learn to dive a dry suit, you can rest assured I'll take them out, but they won't be getting a card, and they know that up front, and odds are good it won't be for free.

My apologies to the agency apologetics.

Hope that clears it up.

I typically like what I've heard you say in numerous posts about your training classes. That's why I was checking out your site.

I like the workshops you offer. I've seen others starting to do the same thing. I think it's a good approach to overcoming certain gaps in current training standards while remaining as an instructor with said agencies.

I just found it odd that Boat Diver is listed at all. Yes there is no link, but if it's such a stupid specialty, which I think it is, why list it? From the context of the site I'd assume, link or no link, that those are all specialties that you teach.