Ice diving full face mask free flow

[oldflounder]

I would like to hear from others that have experienced a free flow with a full face mask while ice diving or any diving for that matter. What was it like and how did you resolve the issues? Does it blow the mask right off your face or only bubble a lot? I know about having the proper cold water first stage, etc. I am assuming one way to avoid it is to wait and swap out the mask after you are under the ice. Please only respond if you have actually had it happen to you.

 

[mntdiver]

What full face mask are you using or considering?

 

[kwinter]

It just bubbles a lot out the skirt. Damn noisy.

 

[lowviz]

Positive pressure masks can look like they are free-flowing when it is just a bad fit or the rubber noseblock is pushing against you in some odd way. Got my ffm cert from ACUC (LGS), most worthwhile.

If it really is a free-flow, remove the mask, go to backup reg and suffer the cold. This is why you always acclimate by "kissing the water" before a ffm ice dive.

 

[oldflounder]

Since this thread has had 228 hits and only a couple have replied that seem to have experienced it, I am going to assume that freeflows rarely happen with a ffm and when they do it is not a big deal. If there is not enough of a blast to knock the mask off your face, I imagine you could continue breathing from it, if you held the bottom tight against your face and then ascend. You probably would be unable to see anything with all the bubbles and would be ascending blindly which would not be good. I have practiced ditching/donning/spare mask switch many times in the pool, but I have yet to dare do it in icy water. I purchased a Scubapro ffm a couple months ago and really like it in the 32* water. So far I just use it near the surface until I get really comfortable with it. I will probably put one of those Apex freeflow shutoffs on it. Maybe then I wouldn't have to ditch the mask and I could see as I ascended while working the shutoff switch to keep some air in it.

 

[lowviz]

....//.... but I have yet to dare do it in icy water. I purchased a Scubapro ffm a couple months ago and really like it in the 32* water. ....//....

Oh my.

OK, call Karen http://www.teamlgs.com/ and ask her to schedule you for a class with Andrea for a ffm cert. Not expensive, your funds go to the hosting fire company in your area so you get to feel good about it. Always a fun bunch of crazies to hang with for a few days. After the ffm cert, take SARR/I and then Ice SARR/I. By then you will, like, know something!

oldflounder, WVFA76home scroll down to the ice diving event to see what it is like.

Best,
lowviz

 

[CristiC]

I have a Scubapro FFM too, fitted with an Apeks reg. It is important to have a rig with easy acces to the tank valves. Either Hog/DIR with twin tanks and manifold or an inverted (worn upside down) single cylinder with a cage protecting the twin valves. There are other configurations as well, such as sidemount cylinders. The idea is to have redundancy and easy access to one's valves. Being able to shut down a free-flowing reg on my own has practical and psychological advantages.

When experiencing a free-flow it usually does not start violently. You shut down the valve, take the FFM off while already holding the secondary second stage, enjoy the shock of the sudden icy water, breathe from the secondary, find and put on the spare mask, then clear it. This is no substitute for a FFM certification, lowviz is right about taking classes.

The intermediate pressure of the first stage and also the second stage have to be tuned by a professional to work better in cold water, the factory setting isn't always the best.

One of the main causes of free-flows is the humidity of the air that makes it through the compressor filter and into the cylinder. Upon demand, more humid air generates ice at the expansion point - the first stage. Having a well-serviced compressor and good filters, even the addition of a personal filter can help to avoid free-flows.

 

[oldflounder]

Thank you ChristiC - I am still at the beginning of the learning curve where I am deciding if I like this gadget or not and if it is worth learning to use it. I have nothing against classes if I can find one. Not many around here use a ffm. So far I like it a lot because I don't freeze my face off getting in and my neck seal doesn't leak. I have only been experimenting with it in the shallows. I have a lot of problem with equalizing my ears. I can't get both fingers into the nose pocket and can only seem to do 1 ear. I am trying other ways and will get it eventually. But how do you deal with it when you have on winter gloves? I can probably rip it off but I don't think I would be able to replace it. It's also hard just getting a regular mask on with these gloves or mitts on. I am hoping that, other than an occasional freeflow, there would be no reason to remove the mask at depth.

 

[CristiC]

At the time I bought that FFM gadget I had no clue about using it and had little diving experience, I only knew that I had to dive under ice. Now, six years later, I still consider it a gadget not worth using unless it is mandatory to have a continuous audio link to the surface, like in search and rescue operations.

If you have to speak and get instructions from topside then it makes sense. If you have to dive in contaminated water it makes sense - but then it is probably not your own equipment. It may be nice to chat with a buddy in warm and clear water or maybe you are filming underwater and need to comment what you see, on a voice recorder, but it is a whole different story at cold-water diving.

Under the ice and in freezing-cold water I prefer the classic mask and an essential piece of equipment that is sold together with Aqualung LX Supreme regulators: a lip-shield made of rubber. It looks like a kind of oval washer over the mouthpiece and protects your lips from the flow of cold water. That's priceless.

With regard to the Scubapro FFM and pressure equalization - it is supposed to be done exactly like with any "normal" mask. That means I wear neoprene five-finger-gloves that fit in the grooves around the nose of the FFM. The 5mm-neoprene seems to be all I need, I don't get cold fingers even after an hour under ice. I'm sure that most dry gloves will fit too but if your mitts or the wet three-finger-gloves do not fit in there, then it's a security issue and wrong equipment.

I was talking to some fellow divers from the Netherlands who were using those OceanReef Neptune Space FFM and they were happy using them under ice, no problems to equalize.
If you are not ready and trained to take off the FFM in freezing water then don't use it at all. It complicates your life adding risks you don't need down there.

 

[lowviz]

Since you already own the FFM, I’d say keep it. Just make sure that your traditional mask and reg skills stay sharp and practiced.

One way to doff and don a FFM:
http://vimeo.com/28838528

The procedure for your mask will be slightly different. Check with the manufacturer.

-the way I learned and practiced with an AGA:
http://teamlgs.com/learning-how-to-use-and-clear-an-aga-mask/

Constant practice is important. You don’t need new surprises in an emergency situation. I thought that I had everything together in my head, but the first time underwater that I couldn’t get a good fast seal (when switching back to the FFM from my backup), I instinctively bit at the rubber noseblock for air while purging.

Something else to think about, an OOA diver could very easily remove your FFM in their panic. You need to switch mental gears fast and get onto your backup regulator. Where do you keep your backup mask? -and always remember, if you need help clearing your backup mask, just ask…
http://wn.com/Mask_clearing_drills
(yeah, I know it’s old. –still fun to watch&#8230