Iberostar Cozumel dock fees!!!!!

[Christi]

Thanks Christi. I have to admit that I'm surprised that your average is hardly a diver a month. I only see it a week at a time (3 in the last year), but I thought it would be more. $50/month at that rate is certainly a major obstacle, and I hope you and others with similar numbers can work through this.

Since I factor the pick-up option into my decision to stay somewhere, any op who pick's me up profits(I hope) from that service and my business. Some divers will require that service.

Since it sounds like there is solidarity among your fellow op's, I'll throw out a goofy thought...
"The Iberostar Water Taxi Service"tm The non-site dive op's pool the $50 fee and some $$ for 1 boat that can taxi divers from/to the IB* pier and their op's boats. Sorry for babbling.

I was actually surprised too when I went through al of my reports. Although I knew that the % of my divers staying at IB was very low - I did think there were more than that. As it turns out - 85% of my divers stay downtown (Casa Mex, Bahia, Vista del Mar), Cozumel Palace or at El Cantil. The other 15% stay in the southern resorts or rental villas.

You see us mom and pop shops know how to run our reports and numbers here too!

BTW: Many of us referred to as "mom and pop" shops are actually incorporated (despite our small size and volume) and pay corporate taxes vs. small business or individual proprietorship taxes and follow stricter guidelines and regulations than those who are not incorporated.

 

[cvchief]

Oh, wait.... I'm thinking I quit my job, move to Coz and start a water taxi. Heck a little raft and a stick, maybe with a nice palapa built on it. I could maybe catch a one tank dive from the last pick up boat and be back to catch the first return..... :hippy:

 

[Christi]

Oh, wait.... I'm thinking I quit my job, move to Coz and start a water taxi. Heck a little raft and a stick, maybe with a nice palapa built on it. I could maybe catch a one tank dive from the last pick up boat and be back to catch the first return..... :hippy:

Then you're going to have the Taxi Union to deal with - undoubtedly, they would find a way to make the water their territory at that point!!!

 

[billindenver]

In the last 18 months, I've had a total of 22 divers at the Iberostar. At $50/month flat rate + some if I exceed a certain number of pick-ups (NOT $3/day/diver as the others are reasonably doing) that is $40/diver. (50 x 18 = $900) and (900/22 = $40.90)

Just so that I understand the numbers here. Are we talking about 22 divers, or 22 pickups? In other words is this 22 diving days total, or 22 divers for multiple days each.

What is odd about the idea that these fees are going to sink everyone is that DWM is roughly 25% less expensive per day than BXTS and yet they have found the math to make these "back room business details" work. Not looking for a fight, so if my asking ruffles feathers, just ignore the question.

 

[Christi]

Just so that I understand the numbers here. Are we talking about 22 divers, or 22 pickups? In other words is this 22 diving days total, or 22 divers for multiple days each.

What is odd about the idea that these fees are going to sink everyone is that DWM is roughly 25% less expensive per day than BXTS and yet they have found the math to make these "back room business details" work. Not looking for a fight, so if my asking ruffles feathers, just ignore the question.

22 total divers - (ie: 2 divers for 4 days each + 1 divers for 4 day each, etc.)

I never said it was going to SINK me or anyone - it's just not a reasonable way they're going about it. As I said, if they were to charge a per diver/day fee - I would have no issue with that.

DWM picks up a lot more people there as evidenced by this thread not to mention the non SB divers - which I also have a lot of. There are also a multitude of other reasons they are a very low priced dive operation.

It's not that I haven't "figured it out" - it's just still not as simple as you're pretending it is.

 

[Diver Kat]

Then you're going to have the Taxi Union to deal with - undoubtedly, they would find a way to make the water their territory at that point!!!

LOL ... I had that same thought!!

 

[Mike]

There are also a multitude of other reasons they are a very low priced dive operation.

Hmmmmm....

Personally I've never understood the admiration for that outfit. I dove with them only once and once was enough. I give them the benefit of the doubt that we just were unlucky since I've read some very happy reports that describe experiences very different then mine.

I don't think you can really pay too much for anything in this world, however I do feel you can not pay enough.

 

[CozumelAntonio]

---SIGH----- :ermm: where to start....???

I'd have to say because the op's are profiting from the use of their pier. They built, re-built, and maintain it. So why not? I used the pier only to get on/off the dive boat, and I would pay an extra couple bucks to the op or the resort to use a non-contracted op and the convenience.

As mentioned by a previous poster, running a dive operation in Cozumel is far from a "get rich" operation, so "profiting" is debatable. If the IB were doing a $2-3 dollars per person per day, as Wyndham and Park Royal (OK Sand Dollar and Aqua World), this thread probably wouldn't exist. The fact is the IB is wanting to PROFIT from NDDO's

"1000's in a year"? Are there really 20+ piers that you pick-up at regularly? Or, if that's based on what looks like $3 per-diver fees above, it's 2-4% of the diving cost (ScubaDu price list) plus rentals, tips, etc. Why can't you just charge a couple extra bucks to pick-up at a "fee pier"?...

No there aren't, but the example I gave:

2 divers at PR x 6 days= $24
5 divers at Wynd x 5 days=$75
2 divers at IB x 3 days=$50

Was just from one recent week, so yes, in a year it would be 1000's, and as I said it would not be fair to raise the dive rates on ALL OUR CLIENTS, to pay for the dock fees of a few divers. We currently service divers from Wyndham and Park Royal, and inform them before signing up, that they must cover the docks fees directly to the people in charge at the docks. Hopefully IB will at least do it on a p/p/day basis as the others....

Since some of the NDDO (Not Dressel Dive Operators) are posting here, how about posting some real numbers? How many divers/month did you average at the IB* over the last year? It would really help validate your arguments (or not?).
Also, how about posting some facts about the fees/deal that Dressel has with the IB*? Or, how about Scuba Du with the EP or ElCoz?

More facts, less speculation, please.

I can't say for sure what the "deal" is at IB/Dressel, I do know that it's a corporate deal, and that at every IB in the world where there is a dive shop, Dressel is the dive shop. I have heard that Dressel pays a % of sales, I am not sure. I would bet that the actual owners of IB, are the same owners of Dressel, and appear as 2 companies on paper for tax convenience.

We had 12 divers from IB in 2009, so if we never pick up another diver at IB, it's no big deal. The fact that I started this thread has more to do with getting the word out and making the dive community aware, than any business reason for the company I work for. I have been on the boards for years, posting information I believe is useful, and I will continue to do so. I am not "crying" about anything...

At both Presidente and El Cozumeleño the dive shops pay rent for the concession. The hotels own the pier (piers in the case of Presidente) and neither charge anyone to pick up their guests there.

Factual enough for you???

Unlike Antonio, I am not against letting the market decide.

CV I don't get why you think I am against letting the market decide? As I posted above, if it was a "going market" fee like the other piers, there would not be an issue, the fact that they want a minimum $50/month, regardless of a minimum number of people, is what I am against.

It is my understanding that the $50 is for a month of unlimited number of divers...not two divers for a few days. Mighty Mouse, is that not the case?

You are incorrect, again. From their email:

------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:39:00 PM CST
From: seguridad@iberostar.com.mx>
To: "'SCUBA DU COZUMEL'"
Subject: RE: Embarcaciones Iberostar

No, son 50 USD por el derecho del uso del muelle por tu embarcación por el mes de febrero. Para el mes de marzo se calcularía el total de clientes que mueves contra lo del mes anterior y posiblemente suba o baje el precio. El pago mínimo es de 50 USD y el máximo son 500 USD mas IVA.

"The minimum is $50 USD and the maximum is $500 USD PLUS tax"

And I was told that was only for that boat, for that client, implying if I had more clients later in the month, it would be MORE. They don't specify how they are going to calculate, or give a "per person equals USD". It's $50/month to put a foot on the pier, and could be alot more. I had stated the above before on this thread.

What is odd about the idea that these fees are going to sink everyone is that DWM is roughly 25% less expensive per day than BXTS and yet they have found the math to make these "back room business details" work. Not looking for a fight, so if my asking ruffles feathers, just ignore the question.

I don't know where you came up with these ideas that other Ops "can't afford" the IB's fees, or that these fees are going to "sink everyone", as in the previous example, you are not correct, still you keep trying to make these points. Really that's not the point. As it was mentioned, there are many reasons why DWM is so cheap, the "wristbands for dock fees promotion" is only the tip of that iceberg... I have nothing against DWM and I wish them the best, so I will leave it at that...

Many 1st world business owners would be shocked to find out the utter and absolute nonsense business owners in Mexico have to go through, from the legal to the taxes, I can honestly tell you, many of you would not put up with it, and as many former Cozumel-business-owner-wannabes have in the past, you'd probably last 6 months, burn through your savings, and go back home with your tail between your legs. The taxes are ludicrous, and the politics disgusting. Cozumel would like to compete on an international destination level, but sadly it can't because Cozumel's businesses are permanently strangled by all kinds of restrictions, the main one being transportation. We dive shops should be able to have a van (or 4), pick up divers where ever the hell they want to stay, and drive them to the boat. That's the case in Cayman, Bahamas and many other dive destinations. We can't, because the taxi union is so politically powerful, and the 5 families that run the island allow them (one single organization) to run the taxis, the airport vans, the bus rentals. Cozumel is the last place in Mexico where transportation has not been liberated.

If some of you knew all the facts, you might be a little more tolerant of locals trying to fight back, by any means, and not try to antagonize a thread like this. What does it matter to you, with your 5 nine day vacations in Cozumel, (we are soooooo impressed) what us locals do or say here, to help our businesses, and perhaps our clients, you've stated you're not interested, accused me of "crying" and many other "little" jabs, well, if you're not interested, why do you keep making these long posts on this thread, taking up antagonistic positions, to further something you're not interested in???? Personally I think these exchanges fill you with self-importance and feed your enormous ego, I think you love ruffling feathers, I think it's like a hobby to you.... Your opinions do not stress me out Bill, in fact I look forward to reading them, as they usually make me chuckle a bit....it's really entertaining to watch you twist words and ideas around to try to fit your arguments, you post 85% coherent information, and weave 15% BS in the middle, and you're actually very good at it!!!

 

[cicopo]

I'm more than willing to take your word on the costs to pick up divers vs numbers you'll likely get, but I'm sure willing to to support a MAJOR change in public transportation. I've been saying that the island needs a normal public transportation system for years. Having a union DICTATE who goes where & at what cost hinders tourism, big time. Some time ago there was a post on Tripadvisor inquiring about hitch hiking one's way around the island, and someone who was qualified to give an answer (yes I remember who, but I'll leave it to them to admit to it) suggested that if someone in the taxi union saw a local pick a hitch hiker up there would be serious consequences later. What a friendly bunch. You are totally correct in suggesting that IF resorts / hotels / dive ops could use their own shuttles as is common in most parts of the world things could be done in a much different way.

 

[Mike]

Many 1st world business owners would be shocked to find out the utter and absolute nonsense business owners in Mexico have to go through, from the legal to the taxes, I can honestly tell you, many of you would not put up with it, and as many former Cozumel-business-owner-wannabes have in the past, you'd probably last 6 months, burn through your savings, and go back home with your tail between your legs. The taxes are ludicrous, and the politics disgusting. Cozumel would like to compete on an international destination level, but sadly it can't because Cozumel's businesses are permanently strangled by all kinds of restrictions, the main one being transportation. We dive shops should be able to have a van (or 4), pick up divers where ever the hell they want to stay, and drive them to the boat. That's the case in Cayman, Bahamas and many other dive destinations. We can't, because the taxi union is so politically powerful, and the 5 families that run the island allow them (one single organization) to run the taxis, the airport vans, the bus rentals. Cozumel is the last place in Mexico where transportation has not been liberated.

If some of you knew all the facts, you might be a little more tolerant of locals trying to fight back, by any means, and not try to antagonize a thread like this. What does it matter to you, with your 5 nine day vacations in Cozumel, (we are soooooo impressed) what us locals do or say here, to help our businesses, and perhaps our clients, you've stated you're not interested, accused me of "crying" and many other "little" jabs, well, if you're not interested, why do you keep making these long posts on this thread, taking up antagonistic positions, to further something you're not interested in???? Personally I think these exchanges fill you with self-importance and feed your enormous ego, I think you love ruffling feathers, I think it's like a hobby to you.... Your opinions do not stress me out Bill, in fact I look forward to reading them, as they usually make me chuckle a bit....it's really entertaining to watch you twist words and ideas around to try to fit your arguments, you post 85% coherent information, and weave 15% BS in the middle, and you're actually very good at it!!!

I feel for you. It's always too easy to pass judgement on a situation as a arm chair quarterback situated 3000 miles away, and comparing apples to oranges, while operating in a totally different set of circumstances.