Iberostar Cozumel dock fees!!!!!

[Mike]

I agree. The consumer ultimately pays for everything they get and that is only fair. I've never expected that any of the dive ops just eat this charge...the client will always pay for it either in a per day fee for being picked up at that pier or a bump in dive pricing.

Are you a business owner?

One of the biggest falacies is that ultimately the customer pays for everything. If you're a business owner you know the reality of what that really means.

Businesses cannot simply pass along any fee, be it tax increase, product increases, labor increase or whatever in a 1:1 parity in a market driven economy. It actually does not work that simply.

 

[DSR-3]

Their argument is that they have to pay maintenance of the pier, federal fees, etc.

Well they have to do that anyway for all of their property, why should operators have to pay their costs???

I'd have to say because the op's are profiting from the use of their pier. They built, re-built, and maintain it. So why not? I used the pier only to get on/off the dive boat, and I would pay an extra couple bucks to the op or the resort to use a non-contracted op and the convenience. Just like I didn't mind paying the costs to taxi to/from the Caleta from the El Coz to use my choice of op's last year.

Question: Does the "artist" who paints "SpongeBob with Angelfish and Saturn" with a flaming spraycan pay something to "exhibit" in the courtyard?

It certainly does add up Judy, and soon becomes a huge chunk:

2 divers at PR x 6 days= $24
5 divers at Wynd x 5 days=$75
2 divers at IB x 3 days=$50

and on and on turns into 1000's in a year, why should we raise our rates to EVERYONE to pay the dock fees of a few divers?? I don't think it's fair...

"1000's in a year"? Are there really 20+ piers that you pick-up at regularly? Or, if that's based on what looks like $3 per-diver fees above, it's 2-4% of the diving cost (ScubaDu price list) plus rentals, tips, etc. Why can't you just charge a couple extra bucks to pick-up at a "fee pier"? I just don't see a difference from the "cook in your room" analogy, or a private masseuse who wants to use the massage huts at the resort.

Since some of the NDDO (Not Dressel Dive Operators) are posting here, how about posting some real numbers? How many divers/month did you average at the IB* over the last year? It would really help validate your arguments (or not?).

Also, how about posting some facts about the fees/deal that Dressel has with the IB*? Or, how about Scuba Du with the EP or ElCoz?

More facts, less speculation, please.

 

[judydivescoz]

I'd have to say because the op's are profiting from the use of their pier. They built, re-built, and maintain it. So why not? I used the pier only to get on/off the dive boat, and I would pay an extra couple bucks to the op or the resort to use a non-contracted op and the convenience. Just like I didn't mind paying the costs to taxi to/from the Caleta from the El Coz to use my choice of op's last year.

Question: Does the "artist" who paints "SpongeBob with Angelfish and Saturn" with a flaming spraycan pay something to "exhibit" in the courtyard?



"1000's in a year"? Are there really 20+ piers that you pick-up at regularly? Or, if that's based on what looks like $3 per-diver fees above, it's 2-4% of the diving cost (ScubaDu price list) plus rentals, tips, etc. Why can't you just charge a couple extra bucks to pick-up at a "fee pier"? I just don't see a difference from the "cook in your room" analogy, or a private masseuse who wants to use the massage huts at the resort.Since some of the NDDO (Not Dressel Dive Operators) are posting here, how about posting some real numbers? How many divers/month did you average at the IB* over the last year? It would really help validate your arguments (or not?).

Also, how about posting some facts about the fees/deal that Dressel has with the IB*? Or, how about Scuba Du with the EP or ElCoz?

More facts, less speculation, please.

I do not believe that the El Presidente or the El Coz are charging pier fees to their guests even though Scuba Du is the resident dive op.

 

[billindenver]

Are you a business owner?

One of the biggest falacies is that ultimately the customer pays for everything. If you're a business owner you know the reality of what that really means.

Businesses cannot simply pass along any fee, be it tax increase, product increases, labor increase or whatever in a 1:1 parity in a market driven economy. It actually does not work that simply.

Yes I am, and have been for most of my adult life (the exception being the time I spent serving my country). So I understand the need to charge for the use of something that you have paid to build and still pay to maintain....without giving much care for those who wish to squat on it for free. I disagree with you completely both as a business owner and a diver. Park fees are passed on to me 1:1 and have been for quite some time...how are pier fees any different? What logic could possibly be used to prove that such a thing is impossible? Dive with Martin is doing the impossible right now. It does work that simply...every day.

In the end, it's real easy for people who didn't pay a hundred thousand dollars for a pier to demand the use of it for free to make their living from. Those of us who have had to spend that kind of money building things our business needs find that concept to be ridiculous and laughable. You may not understand that, but I assure you every single business owner who has written a six figure check for a piece of property to further their business interests disagrees with you. In this case, the Iberostar certainly does. In the end all of this pontificating means very little...the charge is there, pay it or pick your clients up elsewhere. It really is as easy as that.

 

[Mike]

Judy - They didn't charge me or my wife while staying there in November and diving with Aldora. I think they have enough sense not too. Some businesses understand what penny wise, pound foolish means.

Again Bill, I don't think anybody actually believes this is about pier maintenance.

Cozumel dive ops and hotels have been working together for many, many years without this being an issue. Suddenly it's an issue? Why is that?

 

[budaman]

I get depressed the more I follow these discussions because I fear the Cozumel that many of us have known is slowly but surely going away. The Pier issue is just the tip of the iceberg. As Cozumel comes more into line with the corporate philosophy of the civilized world, it will be harder every year for the smaller businesses to compete. I mean, 25 years ago how many AI's & cruise ships were there. Now almost all the large resorts are AI & Cozumel has become the busiest port for cruisers in the region. I would venture to guess that many of the visitors now coming to Cozumel for vacations got there first experience on a cruise....not from diving. How else can you explain the Dolphin and stingray prisons & the new water park......they weren't built to attract divers. The small businesses that have a good business model and adapt will last longer, those that don't will be absorbed. Like the piers, all it will take to get everything going downhill real fast would be for one of the AI's to decide that they will include diving. They start out at no rate increase & slowly increase their rates...no one will bat an eye. Also like the piers, once one did it, how long would it take the others to follow. How many months could an independent hold on...three months, six months, a year? After all, most humans like convenience and savings....it will generally trump quality.

I hope it's just a bad dream...I don't think it will happen in my diving lifetime, but it could.

Mike

 

[judydivescoz]

Judy - They didn't charge me or my wife while staying there in November and diving with Aldora. I think they have enough sense not too. Some businesses understand what penny wise, pound foolish means.

Again Bill, I don't think anybody actually believes this is about pier maintenance.

Cozumel dive ops and hotels have been working together for many, many years without this being an issue. Suddenly it's an issue? Why is that?

Exactly!
That cooperation is why Cozumel has been so successful as a dive destination. The hotels wanted the divers and encouraged divers to stay at their property by offering no hassle pier pickup. One of the diver friendly amenities was the pier and the fact that their own dive op can pick them up.
I have owned my own service business for over 25 years. My success was totally based on the great customer service that we provided. Sometimes that service required an investment in something material to keep the quality of my service on a competitive level. A well maintained pier for a hotel resort property is just that sort of investment

 

[billindenver]

Exactly!
That cooperation is why Cozumel has been so successful as a dive destination. The hotels wanted the divers and encouraged divers to stay at their property by offering no hassle pier pickup. One of the diver friendly amenities was the pier and the fact that their own dive op can pick them up.
I have owned my own service business for over 25 years. My success was totally based on the great customer service that we provided. Sometimes that service required an investment in something material to keep the quality of my service on a competitive level. A well maintained pier for a hotel resort property is just that sort of investment

I understand what you are saying, but disagree with your initial supposition. You are saying that the reason Cozumel is a successful dive destination is because of the cooperation between small dive ops and multi-million dollar resorts in the use of their piers? I couldn't disagree more. I think the reason people pay thousands of dollars each trip to come to cozumel has nothing to do with that...they pay to dive there because the reef is such a cool place to spend an hour plus and the town or resort is a cool place to spend the afternoon. A few small dive ops believe that they carry the cozumel economy, but the truth of the matter is that they see a very small percentage of the divers that come to cozumel and a non-existent percentage of those would quit coming if that op went away.

Dive destinations all over the world do just fine without hotel pickup at all. Cozumel offers that convenience and always will, the difference that appears to be coming to the surface is the resorts deciding not to give away their client spending as they have in the past. They have been charging for small things like internet access for some time now, and now it's pier charges.

The world economy is in the tank and dollars are tight for everyone...including these resorts. When things like the H1N1 scare drop the number of travelers, a one boat dive op still has to pay marina fees and food for their family...but the resort still has to upkeep its grounds, its pools, its buildings, still has to bring in fresh food and MAINTAIN ITS DOCK. All of that costs a lot of money. The loss seen on the bottom line of a business that size can be huge and at that point those at the top start looking for ways to squeeze. They have to, or they go under. Sure, when money was good and the future looked rosy they were happy to give away some business.....these days, where every economist with a degree says the worst is yet to come in the USA (and the rest of the world will feel that), every business owner out there is getting serious about saving all they can. Fight it if you wish, complain if you want...but the reality is that those dollars matter, not just to the mom and pop dive op.

 

[cvchief]

Bill,

I agree with some of your thoughts, BUT you keep cutting me, the customer out. If I have to pay more to dive with whoever I want, then I am not getting the use of the dock in my AI payment. When I compared the Grand to IB, that would have made the difference the last time as the prices were just that close. In the same fashion, if I found a comparible AI with FREE Wifi, that would have made a difference. Unlike Antonio, I am not against letting the market decide. Kickbacks hide the fees and make the playing field unlevel. Maybe if the dive ops listed Ibero kickback pickup fees in their list, that would help level it. Again though it aint about the dock and it aint about the fairness of maintaining it. It is:

1. On site op makes money for IB through having the franchise.
2. Ibero tariffs everyone else to push people to the onsite.
3. If Ibero could get away with it, they wouldnt let anyone else use their dock.

The only question is how far can you go before you affect customer traffic. When returns start to dimish you stop there. I HOPE it affects customer traffic now, so we don't go down that road. Bill may be right that it won't be enough impact to rethink the policy, but I will do my part.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

For those of you who keep talking about pier maintanince. Do you know what it means to maintain a pier. If you do then you know that it isn't much. This all came about after Hurricane Wilma when hotels or dive shops had to repair piers (or I should say insurance paid to rebuild piers and pier permits were waived by city hall). This is about hotels or dive shops trying to keep the customers on their property where the main portion of any money is spent is at the hotel. And on top of it all when you go to pick up at the pier the boats that Dressel Divers use stay docked so that your customers have to go boat hopping to get to your boat even after you have paid for use of the pier.

When I look at this it is two different sides. You look at Aqua World, Villa Blanca or Wyndham and these are three places where the dive shop is the owner / has the concession of the pier. The Iberostar is the owner of the pier. If they want privatize their hotel like Scuba Club they should just come out and do that.

Charging 50 dollars to pick up two customers for five days out of 30 is exagerated. I will continue to pick up divers there but I will also be sure to advise divers of the situation that currently exists as well as the poor customer relations that the dive shop has with divers who are not diving with their dive shop.

I spoke to the manager at the Iberostar and I am going to meet with him to get all of the information from him.