I will be taking my RAID crossover on Tuesday

[flyboy08]

Peaked my interest so I went over to the RAID website...no pricing? I'm in NYC, so looking into this further seems futile?

And one of the pictures shows divers on their knees

 

[RainPilot]

Is it really so new that Frank and Brendon are the only instructors? I could have sworn I remembered hearing about RAID last year sometime.

Loads of instructors worldwide I meant on SB

Peaked my interest so I went over to the RAID website...no pricing? I'm in NYC, so looking into this further seems futile?

And one of the pictures shows divers on their knees

The course prices are visible when you add them to your cart. 160$ for a crossover iirc. The instructor fees are negotiated directly with the instructor which I suspect Frank has gotten a sweetheart deal on.

Most OC courses are 60 $ base price. That includes the e-learning, quizzes, exams and lifetime access to all the manuals including updates.

 

[decompression]

Identical reasons why I crossed over to another 3 digit agency.......more inline with my beliefs. I've considered yet another crossover because of Steve and Jill but we'll have to see....let me know how it goes.

 

[Musicgirl]

Hey, so I'm considering a job at a RAID centre and would do the crossover. But wondering what the annual instructor fees are. Any ideas? And any other things worth noting? I just like to be informed before making the commitment.

 

[kelemvor]

Identical reasons why I crossed over to another 3 digit agency.......more inline with my beliefs. I've considered yet another crossover because of Steve and Jill but we'll have to see....let me know how it goes.

CIA?

 

[Wookie]

Hey, so I'm considering a job at a RAID centre and would do the crossover. But wondering what the annual instructor fees are. Any ideas? And any other things worth noting? I just like to be informed before making the commitment.

$200

 

[Wookie]

How it went for those interested.

My IT came in from Texas to do my crossover. Actually, she came in to drink, but did my crossover anyway. +1 in her favor. After chasing down my insurance company and adding RAID to my additional insureds, I asked @mselenaous where to find a pool in Key Largo, halfway between Key West and wherever my IT was staying. The Jacobs Aquatic Center rocks for those interested. After gearing up, we did a real buddy check. When was the last time I did that? Hopped in the water no fins and did a real buoyancy check, which was fine, as I haven't been in fresh water in many years. With fins on, we did skills. Neutrally buoyant. Now, I'm a pretty good diver, 6000 or so dives, good buoyancy, etc. I spent 2 hours in the pool and never touched the side, bottom, or surface. I thought I might die. Hardest 2 hours of my life in 11 feet of water. Got through it, did all of the skills, all good. Debriefed and put gear away. Headed to Sharkeys for burgers and beer.

Then came the tests. Now, the RAID website leaves a lot to be desired. I had to take all of the tests for Open Water through Technical Nitrox, just to make sure I had the standards down pat. RAID does not do paper of any type, so you do your class online, take your test online, record your training dives online, everything is done electronically. That is excellent, as no paperwork ever gets lost, and you can't get a card without both the student and the instructor signing for the dives and skills. Best online system I've ever seen.

However. You can't find out what questions you missed. This is a real downer as far as I'm concerned. I would take a test, miss 1, and not have any way to find out what I missed, so I'd miss it again on the next test. In my opinion, the test should be a teaching moment as well as an evaluation of your knowledge. As any instructor knows, you have to give a student 5 opportunities to get the material.

Anyway, RAID international says they will look at the test procedures and decide if they want to change their style or not. As they like to say, the answers are all in the book, you have to look them up. I swear, I found questions with no answer, but maybe I'm just obtuse. Wait, I am obtuse for sure, but I still had questions I couldn't answer. After each test, my IT would review my test and sign off that I had taken it. Then I would sign off that she signed off. Then I became a diver for that level. RAID does not issue cards, you get a certification for your smart phone. You can have a card if you want, but I have plenty of cards.

After paying my instructor fee, I am now a RAID instructor in good standing. That's how it went.

 

[boulderjohn]

The point is that neutral buoyancy isn't some future goal for an open water diver, it can be taught in a DSD. And a fin pivot is a tool in the toolbox, it isn't necessary for an explanation of neutral buoyancy.

DSD buoyancy is what first convinced me that there was something wrong with the standard instructional approach. Teaching both DSDs and OW students, I could not help but notice that after a 2 hour DSD (classroom and pool only), my DSD students were invariably more skilled as divers than were the OW students who had spent 8 hours in the pool. The reason was obvious--since the goal of DSD was to have students have enough fun that they would want to be certified, they spent by far most of their pool time swimming in neutral buoyancy. OW students spent most of their time kneeling. I made that observation part of my discussions with PADI when we talked about teaching students while neutrally buoyant.

I don't understand the obsession in discussions like this with the fin pivot. I don't know who is using it in instruction. I don't remember when PADI dropped it--maybe 8-9 years ago. Students are supposed to do an exercise (any exercise) that teaches students the impact of inhaling and exhaling on buoyancy, but there is no fin pivot in the standards, and there has not been one for many years. The reason it was dropped was the realization that instructors had lost sight of the purpose of the exercise and were teaching it as a skill, obsessing over the need for students to do it properly.

If anyone had an instructor teach the fin pivot within very nearly the last decade, that instructor was stuck in the past.

 

[Wookie]

DSD buoyancy is what first convinced me that there was something wrong with the standard instructional approach. Teaching both DSDs and OW students, I could not help but notice that after a 2 hour DSD (classroom and pool only), my DSD students were invariably more skilled as divers than were the OW students who had spent 8 hours in the pool. The reason was obvious--since the goal of DSD was to have students have enough fun that they would want to be certified, they spent by far most of their pool time swimming in neutral buoyancy. OW students spent most of their time kneeling. I made that observation part of my discussions with PADI when we talked about teaching students while neutrally buoyant.

I don't understand the obsession in discussions like this with the fin pivot. I don't know who is using it in instruction. I don't remember when PADI dropped it--maybe 8-9 years ago. Students are supposed to do an exercise (any exercise) that teaches students the impact of inhaling and exhaling on buoyancy, but there is no fin pivot in the standards, and there has not been one for many years. The reason it was dropped was the realization that instructors had lost sight of the purpose of the exercise and were teaching it as a skill, obsessing over the need for students to do it properly.

If anyone had an instructor teach the fin pivot within very nearly the last decade, that instructor was stuck in the past.

As I have said many times, I expect you are an excellent instructor.

 

[The Chairman]

Sounds very similar to NASE. Neutral buoyancy is the most important skill we can impart to a diver. It's the first one I introduce.