i tried to fly out today and i ended up being bent

[Blastman4444]

The computer has 5 segments green, yellow, and red mine were all in the red at deeper then 60 feet it will flash if you ascend faster then 60fpm the log is not flashing the book says 4 segments is 51-60 FPM ascend rate. I hear a lot of folks say don't go up faster then your bubbles an old way of ascending. 20/20 hindsight this is all good learning I doubt I was bent before the plane ride not really sure how one can be bent with no symptoms the only way it is diagnosed is from the symptoms I had no symptoms until the flight out. The surface interval was calculated by the DM no one in the group which 2 had at least 500 plus dives 1 guy who lives in Tampa has been diving for 25 years didn't question the 2nd dive plan. It was supposed to be 17 minute dive, obviously it was greater then that. I suspect the DM was young and pushes the limit himself he was about 22 years old from what I could tell. He never said he was a DM, but I assumed he was they only say you are hiring a guide.

 

[redacted]

The computer has 5 segments green, yellow, and red mine were all in the red at deeper then 60 feet it will flash if you ascend faster then 60fpm the log is not flashing the book says 4 segments is 51-60 FPM ascend rate. I hear a lot of folks say don't go up faster then your bubbles an old way of ascending. 20/20 hindsight this is all good learning I doubt I was bent before the plane ride not really sure how one can be bent with no symptoms the only way it is diagnosed is from the symptoms I had no symptoms until the flight out. The surface interval was calculated by the DM no one in the group which 2 had at least 500 plus dives 1 guy who lives in Tampa has been diving for 25 years didn't question the 2nd dive plan. It was supposed to be 17 minute dive, obviously it was greater then that. I suspect the DM was young and pushes the limit himself he was about 22 years old from what I could tell. He never said he was a DM, but I assumed he was they only say you are hiring a guide.

Youo may want to study your manual a bit more.

Your ascent rate indicator has 5 segments. The first 3 are green, then one yellow and one red. In the dive mode, red means you are exceeding the maximum allowable ascent rate for your depth and the display flashed to get your attention. It does not flash in the log mode, but red still means you exceeded the maximum allowable ascent rate.

Depending on how you manage your gauge, that may or may not be a very accurate and useful piece of information. Your computer appears to be basing this feedback on an extrapolation from a 4 second sample. So, if you are shallower than 30 feet and you raise your gauge more than 2 feet, you will cause a "red" ascent rate reading. And the reading logged is the highest reading. The ascent rate indicator may be useful if you hold your gauge rather steady and monitor it as you ascend. With my gauge on my wrist, I do not find the logged ascent rate output useful because I can cause "red" readings simply by raising my arm even if I am not ascending.

You still have not told us what your TLBG logged results were. They would be a better indication of how aggressive your dives were.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I doubt I was bent before the plane ride not really sure how one can be bent with no symptoms the only way it is diagnosed is from the symptoms I had no symptoms until the flight out.

Maybe it's partly semantics, but the reason this is bothering me is that you have made some pretty black-and-white pronouncements to the dive community as a whole, such as divers should not fly for at least 48 hours after diving (both here and in other threads). From reading this thread it seems that you went past the NDL, and likely had a pretty fast ascent rate. It seems like that set the stage, and is where you were "bent," no?

I feel like it would be better to say "Watch your dive plan and your ascent rate" and/or "If your dive was aggressive and past NDL's, you may have to extend the normal no-fly time" (which implies that someone doing a "reasonable" dive is probably okay following the usual 18 -24 hours or so recommendation).

I realize that you have learned a lot from this dive, and that you will likely approach future dives differently; but I just can't help but feel that singling out the flying, given what we now know about the dive profile, is tackling it from the wrong end.

Blue Sparkle

PS: I know DCI is not an exact science, and so none of this is guaranteed for any individual.

 

[Blastman4444]

Well another dive from 24 feet on another day when someone else was using this computer it is flashing in the log with all 5 bars illuminated. That situation was basically a bounce dive and she ascended too fast back to the surface faster then 30 fpm after being down for 1-2 minutes it does work the same in the log mode flashing when the ascend rate exceeds the limit. First dive was about 3 diamonds away from caution the 2nd dive was 1 diamond into the caution.

 

[Blastman4444]

Blue Sparkle,
I agree and I'm not trying to hide any facts about my diving, but if a group of guys dive the exact same profile as mine and 2 are advanced divers with years of experience, and a DM I'm not the only one who is diving like this, so what does it all mean well I'm just saying others will continue to dive like I did that day, and all I'm saying is take a look at what happen to me maybe schedule a 48 hour wait if you do dive like this maybe dive more conservative then this if you plan on flying out 24 hours later I'm just saying to the dive community that this is what I did following a DM, and with a group of other divers. I flew out about 20 hours later this is what happened. I'm not sure anyone here is willing to even post that they dive like I did pushing there computers to the caution ascending little too fast sometimes. All I'm wanting to do is maybe I can teach another diver that the rules if you push them it can bite you. You can't tell me no one else does dives like this because I know they do.

 

[DandyDon]

Kell, DAN has done extensive studies on flying after diving and as 10 years ago that I know of they found that waiting more than 18 hours does not increase DCS safety for non-deco diving, and this has not changed in the 10 years I have been a member. I suggest you forget your personal 48 hour rule.

I don't want to sound critical of your actions, but like many recreational divers - I just don't think you put much thought, study, and preparation in before the dives. Opinions vary on when to do AOW, but I am of the mind that more training in the first dives is better - so do it right after OW. I think you skimped on either study or purchase of the computer you selected, as you did on your DAN membership, and study of the computer, then did a Trust-Me dive that didn't go well. BTW, if your computer fails, ascend slower than your smallest bubble, not the big ones. As long as your computer is operational, ascend slow enough to keep it happy, then hold at 15 ft until you are back in the green - however long it takes.

There are other possibilities that the veteran divers may or may not have allowed for, I don't know and you probably wouldn't know or remember. For extra cautions, make sure you're well hydrated, then do what Dr.Deco calls a "silent safety stop" of floating with no effort for a full minute once surfacing, if possible - remove your kit in the water and allow the crew to pull it up, and avoid any strenuous movements for an hour at least.

 

[redacted]

Well another dive from 24 feet on another day when someone else was using this computer it is flashing in the log with all 5 bars illuminated. That situation was basically a bounce dive and she ascended too fast back to the surface faster then 30 fpm after being down for 1-2 minutes it does work the same in the log mode flashing when the ascend rate exceeds the limit. First dive was about 3 diamonds away from caution the 2nd dive was 1 diamond into the caution.

I just checked it against my very similar Oceanic and the logged ascent rate does flash if you went into the red. If yours was not flashing then you should have had no more than 4 segments indicated which suggest ascent rate was not a problem. The tick in the yellow of the TLBG suggests an aggressive but not unsafe 2nd dive. When doing 2 or 3 fairly aggressive dives per day, I routinely push my TLBG close to and into the yellow. When I get into the yellow, I extend my safety stop a few extra minutes as needed to bring that indicator back into the green. What I have found is that with multiple days of repeated fairly aggressive dive approaching and entering the yellow, it takes more and more time to off-gas enough to get back into the green. I sometimes find myself doing 10 minute safety stops before I surface.

With only 2 dives, your faster tissue compartments were controlling your dives (causing the yellow tick) so that tick would have likely cleared with a couple extra minutes safety stop. With a subsequent 22 hours SI, all those faster compartments that were regulating the TLBG outputs would have been clear.

It would appear that you are atypical when it comes to the application of decompression theory. That means you are just going to have to be extra conservative if you continue diving to avoid further injuries. I doubt if a 48 hour wait to fly is going to be as helpful as keeping your dives shallower and shorter than most, insisting on longer SIs, and getting nitrox qualified so you can take advantage of EAN36 on those shallower dives.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Hi kell490,

I'm sorry if you felt I thought you were trying to hide something about your diving, or that I was insinuating that you were "bending" the rules more than lots of other people probably do. Not at all! I think it's great that you came here to discuss your incident, and I also think that a relatively large number of divers do "trust me" dives, or dives that could be planned or executed better.

I simply wonder if you aren't emphasizing the flight a bit too strongly in this and other threads, and subsequently warning people to wait 48 hours before flying when other warnings might be more appropriate and/or accurate. These are my take-aways from this incident:

(And by "you" here I don't necessarily mean you only, but rather the generic "you" diver):

1) Be careful in planning your dives and diving your plan -- and be aware that following the DM/guide may not always guarantee trouble-free diving (since they may take a diver into NDL, short-change a safety stop, and/or not even be in the same letter group from earlier dives).

2) Monitor ascents carefully, and know what ascent rate you are shooting for.

3) Learn the details of how your computer works, and what it can and cannot do.

4) Know that susceptibility to DCI varies.

It seems that you may also be more susceptible than most divers to DCI, but then that will probably need to be reflected in your diving as much or moreso than in your flying (I would think?)

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Hi Kell490,

Regarding your mention of ascending no faster than your bubbles, this is actually ascend no faster than your smallest bubblesas the rate changes as the bubbles expand. Its not a very good system because it does not slow you down for the more critical last 30 feet, just a nice secondary method.

As for the 48 hour rule, the pressure difference from 0-8000ft is pretty small compared to the pressure differences under water, worst case it the feather that broke the camels back. Maybe you are more sensitive to DCS than others, maybe just the other factors built up such as dehydration, or it was just on of these random events. I certainly don't know and doubt anyone else can tell you for sure. Rather than self impose a rule that only effects flying I would follow the advice offered by others a proactively reduced your overall risk of DCS by diving more conservatively overall.

Personally, last week I had to skip the 4th dive on a boat trip last week. It sucked as it was my 59th birthday present from my wife. But after 3 consecutive 1 hour dives with barely 1 hour SI's, my computer was indicating my last dive would be OK but butting right up to NDL. Most of the divers did all 4 and none of them suffered any DCS. Still I knew combining my age, sub-optimal physical condition and tiredness after a long day I needed to bail rather than push the envelope.

 

[bleeb]

Regarding your mention of ascending no faster than your bubbles, this is actually ascend no faster than your smallest bubblesas the rate changes as the bubbles expand. Its not a very good system because it does not slow you down for the more critical last 30 feet, just a nice secondary method.

Just to clarify further, IIRC those bubbles should be no larger than a couple of mm. (Hope I'm remembering that correctly.) And since rising bubbles tend to be flattened, that should be measured horizontally and not vertically. Above 30 feet you'll probably have to wave your hand through the bubbles every couple of feet to break them up as they expand while rising.