I think I'm about done with Scubapro Regs...Looking for Options

[chrpai]

if you are a DIY I would suggest you to learn servicing your D400, those regs that you have mentioned would be a step backwards performance wise.

Oh Hog Wash! I get that you guys love your vintage stuff and I'm the last person to claim it needs to be replaced because it's "life support equipment" but it's untrue to assert it's so much more high performance.

Here is what DA Aquamaster has said on the subject:

I'll also argue there is no noticeable difference in performance between the Mk 15 and the Mk 20/25.

If there is a noticeable difference it is in terms of the SPEC kit used on the Mk 15 and very early Mk 20) which is far more effective in cold water than the TIS kit used on the Mk 20 and 25.

The caution about the Mk 15 is that Scubapro no longer makes hard parts for them so if you damage the piston you are basically screwed unless it's still under warranty.

And Halocline:

I frequently see NOS MK15 pistons, springs, and seat retainers for sale, so I wouldn't be too concerned about not being able to service one. It does take a set of skinny snap ring pliers. I like my MK15 and use it on HP tanks. If I were buying again, though, I'd look for an early MK20 and simply install the composite piston. A friend's MK20 equipped with that piston that I work on is now going on it's 4th year with perfect lock up and zero creep.

 

[elan]

I do not know why you picked on MK15 I was talking about D400 in my post. and yes the difference between D400 and Hog, Apeks and even their own G250, S600 and A700 is noticeable. the latter are easier to service and make sense if you have 20 second stages to service in bulk but the former performance wise: lower stable cranking effort, smother air delivery an handling different dive situation including current/scootering D series and Air 1 are head above the other barrel based IMHO. but yes they are more difficult to service.

MK15 is a great reg I have one a love to dive it and I would not feel a need to replace it with any new stuff.

 

[redacted]

Oh Hog Wash! I get that you guys love your vintage stuff and I'm the last person to claim it needs to be replaced because it's "life support equipment" but it's untrue to assert it's so much more high performance.

Here is what DA Aquamaster has said on the subject:



And Halocline:

I do not know why you picked on MK15 I was talking about D400 in my post. and yes the difference between D400 and Hog, Apeks and even their own G250, S600 and A700 is noticeable. the latter are easier to service and make sense if you have 20 second stages to service in bulk but the former performance wise: lower stable cranking effort, smother air delivery an handling different dive situation including current/scootering D series and Air 1 are head above the other barrel based IMHO. but yes they are more difficult to service.

MK15 is a great reg I have one a love to dive it and I would not feel a need to replace it with any new stuff.

The performance difference is primarily the 2nd stage, not the 1st stage. And the designs of the original pilot and the coaxial valve 2nds (downgraded pilot, Air1, D-series) are unique and seem to make more use of pneumatic balancing and less dependance on spring balance that the more common balanced barrel poppet designs. And they also seem to have larger orifices which allow for greater gas flow when the valve opens. The performance differences are not really large. With well tuned 2nds it may be hard to detect at all. And the difference may not even be apparent in measures like cracking pressure or WOB. They just seem to deliver the gas a little more smoothly. I suspect that, with the reduced role of the mechanical spring there are less extreme peaks and valleys in the in the delivery pressure curve that makes it feel a bit smoother. But the penalty you pay is a bit more complexity (some might say quite a bit) with associated service difficulties. There are parts that can be assembled incorrectly. And the adjustment (tuning) of the coaxial valve models is a bit odd. You have to go past the "sweet spot" and note where it was. Then you have to back it up and do it again stopping just at the right point. New techs are not taught to deal with these older model regs and, unfortunately, some just do not have the ability to research procedures and figure out how to get it right.

 

[AJMiami]

I think I found the problem with my regulator. Big Thanks to axxel57 for sending me the manual. Probably spent 3-4 hours reading/re-reading. Looks like the nyloc screw was not fully assembled, making the lever lose!!! What a poor job done by the last tech!

 

[redacted]

I think I found the problem with my regulator. Big Thanks to axxel57 for sending me the manual. Probably spent 3-4 hours reading/re-reading. Looks like the nyloc screw was not fully assembled, making the lever lose!!! What a poor job done by the last tech!

Well, that is the easy adjustment. You may want to check the spring pad adjustment also to make sure your are enjoying the gas capability that regulator provide.

 

[AJMiami]

Well, that is the easy adjustment. You may want to check the spring pad adjustment also to make sure your are enjoying the gas capability that regulator provide.

I'm going to have to leave the spring pad adjustment as it is now, as I don't have the tool to remove the top cap (mine is the version with multiple orifices). However, it looks like the adjustment is spot on as it feels very comfortable to breath from the reg.

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ----------

On another note, where can I find the tools to work on it going forward?

 

[axxel57]

Scuba Tools

 

[AJMiami]

Scuba Tools

Thank You

In addition to this Scubapro Multi-Tool, Brass Chrome

What other tools are recommended? I have a decent set of common tools (allen metric/english, screwdrivers, etc.). I'm focused on servicing the MK15/D400/AIR2

 

[redacted]

I'm going to have to leave the spring pad adjustment as it is now, as I don't have the tool to remove the top cap (mine is the version with multiple orifices). However, it looks like the adjustment is spot on as it feels very comfortable to breath from the reg.

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ----------

On another note, where can I find the tools to work on it going forward?

A pair of these will do the job: IRWIN VISE-GRIP Plier, Bent Nose, 6 In - Solid Joint Pliers - 4YU73|2078226 - Grainger Industrial Supply

You can work around many "specialized" scuba tools or you can make your own. The D400 does not require much. Get the Scubatools pick set. I mostly use the double hook pick but all have their place. You will need a yoke nut socket but that can also be made by cutting down a 3/8 in. drive 1" socket. You should be able to fashion a Mk15 assembly tool. The few tools made for the Air2 can be worked around.

 

[halocline]

When you're ready to rebuild, start another thread on the DIY forum and you'll get lots of help. There are two potential landmines to look out for with these models; on the MK15 you have to know that the bushing on the ambient side of the HP piston o-ring is permanently pressed in place, even though it looks just like the other one that you remove. On the D400, removing the dive-predive switch and spring that it operates is not difficult, but you should take great care to observe the way that spring fits in, and be very patient trying to work the the square o-ring in place on the switch, then keep it in place while you screw the spring retainer in place.

Unfortunately what you have are two regs that were ahead of their time, and placed appropriate demands on technicians who are supposedly 'certified' to service 'life support' gear. The reality is that many of these 'techs' were not up to the task. So you can turn a negative into a positive by learning to do it yourself, and thus continue enjoying one of the highest performing regulators ever made.