I think I will...

[MikeFerrara]

My reaction was more from the fact that you dont exactly live on BoraBora yourself Mike....lol

dude, you need to take the redundancy package, sell the house, buy a campervan or RV drive it to Akumal and get away from all those naff quarries and into the underground wonderland.

Think about it, about a billion feet of explored passages already and we have only just scratched the surface, sunshine 320 days per year, sopita de camaron, white sand beaches and and the largest "plants" you will find are coconut palms.

Sounds good but I've got a couple of kids to get through college yet. Unless some one will pay me a bunch of money to cave dive I'll have to hang here for a while.

 

[yknot]

Codswallop Shaka, offshore outsourcing is a model that has been viable for decades. The North American manufacturing sector has been increasing in its sofistication which is all that has kept it afloat. As global transportation costs decrease there is no economic reason to pay the high labour costs of a first world labour force.

If a countries resources are unskilled labour, then it will inevitably draw industry that needs cheap unskilled labour. If a countries unskilled labour force is diminishing due to increasing education, then the type of manufacturing in that country will inevitably shift towards products that utilize that skilled labour. This is what is happening in North America today.

This doesnt make it any easier to those directly involved, but it is no different from when I hear fishermen and loggers complaining about the creation of national parks and their loss of income. the short sighted view is that they will be unemployed, the reality is that they get employment as park rangers and tour guides. This is just a different more sustainable form of extraction of the same resource.

Not true in some cases. I'm currently watching the American tooling industry go the way of textiles and consumer electronics. These jobs aren't going to Mexico but rather India, Korea and China. Some of this competition is also skilled and fairly competent. Unfortunately, no amount of training, customer service and technological wizardry on our part can overcome the cost differences. Engineering jobs that used to pay six figure salaries in the US are being done in China for $150 a month. I'm not making these figures up, BTW. When an entire economy functions at the $150 a month or less level there isn't anything we can do to compete. This isn't now only a design engineering job, but tool build and further down to steel production, full vehicle assy., etc. In a short amount of time also, these Asian competitors will learn how better to service, market and manage their business and there won't be any opportunities for us to even be peripherially involved (no park ranger jobs). Ultimately, when the likes of a Ford Motor Co. is only a sales office in the US then it will all become evident to those who don't think their income relies on the transportation industry.

Instead of crying about outsourcing I'm trying a different approach. I want to campaign to outsource every single job in America. Let's start with the government. We could elect our congress and president from whatever foreign source works cheaper. I bet there are political science PHD's in China that would work for $10,000 a year. Next, we could use illegal immigrants to deliver the mail, as they will work far cheaper than the current postal workers and don't require benefits. Volunteer military enlistments down? Just call a foreign labor broker and order Army members by the 1000's. They'll soon be building our military hardware anyway. After all, why is it just my (and Mike F's) jobs that these third world workers are suddenly qualified for? Maybe when the crowd that doesn't think outsourcing applies to them is threatened they'll wake up.

 

[MgicTwnger]

Maybe when the crowd that doesn't think outsourcing applies to them is threatened they'll wake up.

Amen. Every good paying job that goes away affects everyone. The jobs that are being created are mostly low paying, no benefits crap. Thank you globilization!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Instead of crying about outsourcing I'm trying a different approach. I want to campaign to outsource every single job in America. Let's start with the government. We could elect our congress and president from whatever foreign source works cheaper. I bet there are political science PHD's in China that would work for $10,000 a year. Next, we could use illegal immigrants to deliver the mail, as they will work far cheaper than the current postal workers and don't require benefits. Volunteer military enlistments down? Just call a foreign labor broker and order Army members by the 1000's. They'll soon be building our military hardware anyway. After all, why is it just my (and Mike F's) jobs that these third world workers are suddenly qualified for? Maybe when the crowd that doesn't think outsourcing applies to them is threatened they'll wake up.

I think you've got something there.

 

[TekDiveGirl]

Sounds good but I've got a couple of kids to get through college yet. Unless some one will pay me a bunch of money to cave dive I'll have to hang here for a while.

That was why I told the original poster if at his age he had no responsibilities and had the chance to go for it. It only becomes harder when you have kids/house/bills etc.

Take the chances while you can!

Kimber

Some people develop a wishbone where their backbone should be.

- Unknown

 

[MikeFerrara]

That was why I told the original poster if at his age he had no responsibilities and had the chance to go for it. It only becomes harder when you have kids/house/bills etc.

Take the chances while you can!

Kimber

Some people develop a wishbone where their backbone should be.

- Unknown

You lost me. I am the original poster.

As most probably know, I had a dive shop until last year. A major reason for opening the shop was an attempt to prepare for this. I was supposed to be able to make a living on it.

Well that was dumb of course since all I did was loose the money that I did have saved so now I get to deal with this with near empty pockets. LOL

It's amazing how we can screw things up given the chance.

 

[TekDiveGirl]

You lost me. I am the original poster.

As most probably know, I had a dive shop until last year. A major reason for opening the shop was an attempt to prepare for this. I was supposed to be able to make a living on it.

Well that was dumb of course since all I did was loose the money that I did have saved so now I get to deal with this with near empty pockets. LOL

DUH! Talk about major jet lag coming back from our trip to San Diego -- I thought I was in another thread. Ummm -- kinda like the chick from old Saturday Night Live -- Nevermind...

It's amazing how we can screw things up given the chance.

Don't I know it... of all people I know it ...

But I think we do the best with what we have - sometimes it works out fabulously - and other times...

Kimber

 

[MikeFerrara]

I only did one thing right.

I baught the house I have because it was 5 miles from where I worked at the time. A month after I closed on the house they anounced they were closing the plant (moved it to Mexico of course). LOL. On the good side I ended up with a piece or property that was and is just perfect for what my family needed. I have 4 achres, a barn, a big garage, 2 horeses and a full dive shop...best gas blending station in the state!...all with a LOW mortgage and almost no taxes.

My next job was 50+ miles away but after seeing how the place was run I decided not to go into debt for a new house in a far more expensive area. I decided to burn up cars instead. My mortgage is low enough that I could probably work at McDonalds and keep a roof over my head.

 

[bwerb]

I'm so sorry to hear what's going on Mike. I am a manufacturer's agent. I am the outsourced sales arm for 25 different multi-million to multi-billion dollar corporations, some are Canadian, some are American, some European and some Asian. The thing I have found so facinating is that the recent trend has moved totally away from longterm thinking to...literally...hitting the monthly numbers.

It's like the exact same idea and way of doing things hit all these companies at once. They are hiring MBAs right out of school who have nothing but book learning...and are willing to work for a fraction of what the guy they are replacing is making. (For example a national sales manager who made $130,000 was replaced by someone who is making...about $36,000).

Everything is about "shareholder value". If we don't make the numbers this month...our shares will drop and we've "committed" to our shareholders to "hit the number". Nothing else matters. Long term thinking doesn't matter. People don't matter. Real life efficiancies don't matter. With this mentality, supplemented by the strange duality of "our people are our most valuble resource, but remember every one of you are replaceable...if you don't like the way we're running things...leave."

I'm afraid it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The ultimate sad part is that every single one of us is part of the problem. I know it is sometimes hard to really look at all the different pieces of the puzzle, but let's try for a minute to consider some of the salient details.

We all want our investments to grow. Be it personal savings and investing, 401Ks or equivalent (RRSP's), Pension plans, etc. All of this demand for capital growth fuels the demand for higher share prices...which in turn bite us in the butt when the outcome is that our companies do what they think is necessary to increase shareholder value.

We also all tend to want each of our dollars to go farther. How many post on here talk about getting the best price. How many people flock to Walmart (Wally World) and Home Depot (Agent Orange) because of the great buy they can get. Well, unfortunately, in order to be able to supply you, the consumer, with the $20 coffee maker which you demand...because I'm not going to pay $40 for something which does the same thing...you've just effectively reinforced the move to overseas products.

Consumers are voting with their dollars to outsource their own jobs...most of them don't even realize it. It is so sad that exactly the same people who are the most cost conscious and are desparate to feed and clothe their families are the exact ones who are most affected by shopping where they do. On one side they are concerned about making ends meet, while their solution is to support the continuing cycle.

I really don't have an answer. But I believe if we all start looking a little bit deeper at how we contribute to the problem, collectively, we might start to figure it out.

 

[Mako Mark]

Mike this is a complex issue, and dont get me wrong, it sucks and I do understand about upper management that make quick band aid fixes where good management, sound business practices and financial planning can streamline a badly run business and turn it around.

Yknot's post regarding the export of scientific and technical jobs to the likes of India and China is a poinant one. It is part of globalization, and globalization is here to stay whether we like it or not.

Perhaps I have a slightly different view on this matter as I have NOT lived in a first world country for over 15 years.

Bwerb's view that ultimately capitalism is something that feeds on itself like some flesh eating virus is a good one. We all aspire to wealth, but there is only a certain amount of money to go around. If that is pumped into the overflowing coffers of the rich, then someone else is paying. So the more we idolize the super ritch, then the more likely we are to a fall victim of their greed.