I think I will...

[Rick_G]

Al

Quantifying standard of living is one of those gray areas that politician love to spout figures about, because they can’t be wrong ever. Depending on your basis for comparison, I could make Ethiopia look like a pretty attractive place to live compared to the U.S. or Canada. Since I opened the door with that statement I guess I’ll have to further stick my foot in my mouth. I believe that a more accurate way of measuring standard of living is by personal disposable income. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how much you make it’s what you’re able to do, or not do with it. Now this is economic standard of living not quality of living, quality is very subjective. I believe that you will find no other country with a higher disposable income than the U.S. I wonder if there is an economist on the board?

Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

Just some thoughts in no particular order...

The times they are a changin'.
WalMart kills the little guy.
The internet changes the local dive shop paradigm.
Cheap labor and low shipping costs move jobs overseas.
The need for high quality work moves jobs to the US (!)
I've owned a small business that saw sales drop from over 2 million/year to under 200K literally overnight. That wasn't fun and it wasn't "fair" but it happened and it wasn't anybody's "fault." I managed to make it without going under; 11 of the thirteen shops in our little association didn't. That's life.
-----
True story - one of the world's largest manufacturers of automobile wiring harnesses moved their ops from Alabama to Mexico a few years ago to save money on labor. But they didn't stay long, because the end product just flat had too many QA problems. So they're back.
In this area we're seeing more "In"sourcing than outsourcing... Mercedes, Hyundai etc. But it's too hot and humid in the summers and y'all wouldn't like it.
-----
Just chatting with an immigrant from India (now an American) the other day who'd come here with a few hundred dollars and a dream. He said that his friends in India all advised him not to come, not to abandon his "good job" there in India. They all asked "why?" This fellow's answer was that he'd travelled all over the world, and only in America were the poor people fat.

Rick

 

[diverrick]

My hear felt condolences to you. I recently just went through what your going through. (well... I am still going through it to date) I know just how screwed your feeling. I found a new job that paid more than I was making at my last job, problem is... I have yet to work a single day!! Pay is no good if no one wants you to work for them. I hope things work out soon for both of us, as I don't know how long I can hold out, without steady work, that pays a living wage. Emphisis on "living wage", as I could go to work tommorow, but at a rate I could never live on, seeing as I live in the California Bay area. Hope all will work out for you. I also hope you saw the "writing on the wall" as it is said, and started to put away a bit for these kind of rainy days. I for one never saw it coming. I got cought flat footed as can be. Seems to be a common problem now a days.

 

[Diver0001]

This whole outsourcing thing will eventually equalize when the offshore production costs increase, decrease over here and people get tired of the incompetence. It's actually a good thing, just hold on..........work smarter and present better quality/service.

You're kidding. What I see from my experience as a IT consultant (where I see a lot of big business in transition to/from outsourcing) There seems to be a polarization on two prominent types:

The Quality for a Given Price model (4-star restaurant)

and the

The Price for a Given Quality model (ie McDonalds)

In any big scale company like Siemens I personally haven't seen much in between and if you ask me the ones who will move their factories to low cost locatoins to get better numbers *never* get tired of the quality issues. They simply see it as an additional cost to be factored in to the bottom line. That's all. In such companies any real quality has to be measurable in terms of production speed to really get the attention of a lot of managers.

For the people involved and especially the ones to get shafted by the company it's absolutely gut-wrenching. The sad truth is that any notions of loyalty we have to our employers is deeply naive and misplaced for the obvious reason that it's *all* one-way.

Also--and I hope I can say this without insulting you, Mike, seeing as how the wound is fresh--but let me offer this point..... The (now famous) "sucking noise" doesn't exist without reason and some of those reasons can't just be dismissed from hand with generalizations about management competence..... In terms of NAFTA, Mexico has a distinct inside track on the US and Canada in some ways and some companies will continue to look for ways to leverage that. For example, we're quick to conclude that the quality will suffer by moving production to Mexico.... but will it? Mike said himself that most of the people getting fired were unskilled workers. What makes us think that an unskilled worker close to home would have any more influence on product quality than an unskilled worker somewhere else? I'm offering this to provoke thought and discussion and not to defend this particular move or "dis" anyone.

R..

 

[GeekDiver]

Mike,

Sorry to hear the news as well. I just got my walking papers last week as well. I've got 4 more wks of work left to find another position in a company thats has the rep of one of the biggest offshore shops to date so prospects are slim. I got a pat on the back and well wishes, 9 wks of additional pay (after the remaing 4 wks of work) and severance if it doesn't work out. IT work here in Houston is slim so I'm most likey looking at a big change.

Good Luck,

Geek

 

[MgicTwnger]

IT work here in Houston is slim so I'm most likey looking at a big change.
Geek

From my own experience and what I've been hearing, it's slim all over.

 

[DiveTyme]

Mike,
Bad break. My thoughts and prayers are with you. After reading your posts on this board, I know that you are a determined type and I am sure you will land on your feet.
Tim

 

[DivePartner1]

...use the whine and cheeze forum to blow off a little steam.

I found out yesterday that the plant is closing and everything is moving to Mexico. Well...not everything...the people just get booted...well...not all the people get booted...the incompetent execs that always do these things get to stay.

That's harsh, Mike. Sorry it happened to you. It may be hard for some of the younger folks to grasp this but my family was kicked around badly when the steel industry collapsed in the 80's, and some never really got over it. It changed my world view. Economic theory is not worth a damn when when your caugth in it. My own favorite was a business that shut down 2 month after I signed on after a risky move--on 8 hour's notice (of course the place I moved from imploded as well). It took me about 3 years to get back to where I'd been. I got lucky (for now) and hope you do as well.

A lot of us here respect you, Mike, and wish you the best.

 

[MikeFerrara]

That's harsh, Mike. Sorry it happened to you. It may be hard for some of the younger folks to grasp this but my family was kicked around badly when the steel industry collapsed in the 80's, and some never really got over it. It changed my world view. Economic theory is not worth a damn when when your caugth in it. My own favorite was a business that shut down 2 month after I signed on after a risky move--on 8 hour's notice (of course the place I moved from imploded as well). It took me about 3 years to get back to where I'd been. I got lucky (for now) and hope you do as well.

A lot of us here respect you, Mike, and wish you the best.

Thanks,

I sure remember the closing of the steel mills. I worked at a conveyor manufacturer while I was going to school in the late 80s...and no I'm not that young, I was just old when I went to scool. LOL Anyway some of the guys I worked with there had been displaced when the steel industry came apart. They were making about $8/hour at the conveyor company and some were traveling almost 100 miles to get to work. Needless to say, their standard of living was down and I doubt that they ever got it back up.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike,
Bad break. My thoughts and prayers are with you. After reading your posts on this board, I know that you are a determined type and I am sure you will land on your feet.
Tim

The worst part is seeing the folks who are really scared. I'm not. It's not because I'm determined, cocky or brave. I don't want to provoke those who believe differently but for those who have posted that they are in the same boat I have to say that I'm not too worried because I have faith that even the things that seem bad are part of a plan that's good.