I tasted the Kool Aide and it didnt agree with me

[piikki]

I am curious for those here if they recieved REAL instruction during their fundies courses or if, as with the OP, they didn't recieve what they felt was real instruction. Clearly each instructor will have their own style, but there is a wealth of information to be imparted during these courses. It would be a shame if people were taking the class and not getting it.

I think this is an important question in the light of OP's frustration, and I would have liked to hear more than a couple of people answering this question. We constantly hear DIR-F students acclaim how they were "shown the bar", and often also acclaim how they were shown how to get there. However, OP is not the only one who I have personally heard telling that he was not actually shown "the how" for many skills.

I think OP set himself up for a shock by rushing onto the course, and making the all too familiar mistake of turning up with new gear. Not finishing the course leaves one in a tricky position to judge if the building blocks were indeed shared - but I am noway doubting that this could have been a big frustration in addition to other frustrations.

Since GUE's one marketing line is that you will "always" get great instruction, I'd like to hear more about the missing or not missing 'hows'. Some people seem to have gotten a lot of practical aid when I hear (and what has put me off personally) some people complaining that they were just told that this is where you should be but not really shown how to do it. Like we saw in OP's case, it can be extremely frustrating especially for those who do not have easy access to mentors and dive buddies.

So how much should you actually shop even for GUE instructors? Who are the good "how to" guys?

 

[Jason B]

This assumes a SAC rate of 1.0, I think Catherine's is much lower. Also there are WRECK PENETRATIONS! and there are wreck penetrations ... if you know what I mean.

It does assume a SAC of 1 for each diver as it also assumes stress. Better to have too much in reserve than not enough.

No one is saying that you have to believe in these ideas, but these ideas are DIR, but what you and Catherine are promoting is most definitely not.

You can play word games all day long but an overhead is an overhead. To do it deep, solo, and on a single Al80 is most definitley not DIR. Why is this conversation even happening in here?

 

[RTodd]

This assumes a SAC rate of 1.0, I think Catherine's is much lower. Also there are WRECK PENETRATIONS! and there are wreck penetrations ... if you know what I mean.

You are absolutely correct. Since she is solo diving with a pony bottle, all of the above is completely unnecessary.

 

[RTodd]

I think this is an important question in the light of OP's frustration, and I would have liked to hear more than a couple of people answering this question. We constantly hear DIR-F students acclaim how they were "shown the bar", and often also acclaim how they were shown how to get there. However, OP is not the only one who I have personally heard telling that he was not actually shown "the how" for many skills.

I think OP set himself up for a shock by rushing onto the course, and making the all too familiar mistake of turning up with new gear. Not finishing the course leaves one in a tricky position to judge if the building blocks were indeed shared - but I am noway doubting that this could have been a big frustration in addition to other frustrations.

Since GUE's one marketing line is that you will "always" get great instruction, I'd like to hear more about the missing or not missing 'hows'. Some people seem to have gotten a lot of practical aid when I hear (and what has put me off personally) some people complaining that they were just told that this is where you should be but not really shown how to do it. Like we saw in OP's case, it can be extremely frustrating especially for those who do not have easy access to mentors and dive buddies.

So how much should you actually shop even for GUE instructors? Who are the good "how to" guys?

If you show up comfortable in the basic DIR gear with good bouyancy skills everything else is relatively easy. You may not pass if you need more time to practice some of the skills if they are truly new, but bouancy is the key. The OP appears to have had bouyancy problems which are necessary in order to get what is needed out of a fundamentals class. No one can magically teach you how to have proper bouyancy skills in a few days of class, particularly with the other topics covered in fundamentals. It takes practice. Plus, if he actually spent that much time "practicing" diving after the class, I would be fed up with it too.

 

[Blox]

You are absolutely correct. Since she is solo diving with a pony bottle, all of the above is completely unnecessary.

 

[Charlie99]

I think this is an important question in the light of OP's frustration, and I would have liked to hear more than a couple of people answering this question. We constantly hear DIR-F students acclaim how they were "shown the bar", and often also acclaim how they were shown how to get there. However, OP is not the only one who I have personally heard telling that he was not actually shown "the how" for many skills.

I think OP set himself up for a shock by rushing onto the course, and making the all too familiar mistake of turning up with new gear. ..........

Since GUE's one marketing line is that you will "always" get great instruction, I'd like to hear more about the missing or not missing 'hows'. Some people seem to have gotten a lot of practical aid when I hear (and what has put me off personally) some people complaining that they were just told that this is where you should be but not really shown how to do it.

Just like in complaints about bad dive operators or dive shops, there are at least 2 sides to the story, sometimes 3.

An almost universal theme of DIR-F class reports is that the students are exhausted and overwhelmed towards the end. Clearly is LOT of material being covered.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you get widely varying reactions to the course. People come to the course with different levels of preparation, including the common problem of not having gotten used to a new BP/W. People come to the course with a wide variety of dive skills such as buoyancy control. Somebody that is consumed with basics has a hard time accepting whole bunch of new material.

People also have different methods of learning. In general, DIR is heavy on oral tradition and very weak on providing written materials.

People also differ in learning style as to whether they prefer self training, or work better with signficant instructor involvement. For some, simply being shown the bar and learning of its existence is enough. Others need more hands on involvement.

Taking these different factors into account, it isn't really all that surprising that different students can come out of the same DIR-F class with widely varying impressions.

Charlie Allen

 

[*Floater*]

I am curious for those here if they recieved REAL instruction during their fundies courses or if, as with the OP, they didn't recieve what they felt was real instruction. Clearly each instructor will have their own style, but there is a wealth of information to be imparted during these courses. It would be a shame if people were taking the class and not getting it.

I think this is an important question in the light of OP's frustration, and I would have liked to hear more than a couple of people answering this question. We constantly hear DIR-F students acclaim how they were "shown the bar", and often also acclaim how they were shown how to get there. However, OP is not the only one who I have personally heard telling that he was not actually shown "the how" for many skills.

Yes, I was shown how to do the skills. We watched videos of people doing them, we then did them on land (dry practice), then in water, then watched them on video and were told what to correct and when necessary given suggestions on how to accomplish said corrections or why we were getting it wrong (eg. keep fin tips/toes pointed down during some kicks, keep hands still, adjust boltsnaps and d-rings to make clipping things easier, tighten straps, use smaller breaths or breathe a certain way to minimize buoyancy change).

We were also shown the bars (rec and tech), which mainly consist of being able to do all the skills with high proficiency, while task-loaded and while staying in one spot in good trim, good buoyancy control. The instructor did of course give some tips on how to accomplish this, but to a large extent it just takes raw practice and repetition and it's not necessarily something that can be taught in a few days regardless on how much explanation you are given.

 

[piikki]

It doesn't surprise me at all that you get widely varying reactions to the course. People come to the course with different levels of preparation, including the common problem of not having gotten used to a new BP/W. People come to the course with a wide variety of dive skills such as buoyancy control. Somebody that is consumed with basics has a hard time accepting whole bunch of new material.

Personally, I am not so interested in the reports that list all the problems of "I came and I had just bought XYZ and too bad so sad I would have done better if I had had more time..." or "I had not even dived for 6 months" or "I had just started reading about DIR last week". Those are kind of like "doh" for me. I am interested in hearing from people who entered with varying levels of skills whether they thought the skills were actually "taught" hands on during the course. Were they just shown (then shown how far you were) or was there instruction what to do step-by-step.

It's fairly easy (if reporters are honest) to weed out how much of the problems were due to dismal buoyancy skills. Leaving out those who entered maybe a little too early to benefit because basics were so hard to handle, how much "show how" was done with skills you struggled with, like propulsion, clipping, bag shoots etc. How much personal attention did you get if you struggled with one particular skill when others in your group mastered it?


Edit: With "not even dived for 6 months", I did not mean to say new divers should not take the course - It was sling at divers who come to the course and say they have not even gotten wet for ages...

 

[RiverRat]

Somebody who goes into the class in brand new gear, with marginal or poor buoyancy control, is not going to be able to spend much time learning kicks, practicing air-shares, or learning bag shoots. We had two very new divers (8 and 16 dives) in our Fundies class, and I'm sure they were about as frustrated as Caribbeandiver was. One of them went off and worked on his diving for over a year, and came back and retook the class. I believe he was very happy with it the second time.

I think this is a problem with Fundies. From all of the reports I've read, why take the class if you're not ready? As an introduction to skills you've never attempted? I understand the goal is to learn something (as we all should be doing) and not a "pass" or card but I think bringing in students that are way unprepared along side of students that may be very prepared may be an issue. I took a "buoyancy" class as I was told I'd have a much better shot at passing GUE-F if I took these classes. I have to agree it seems the way to go. I've been diving my gear, BP/W etc. for years so all I had to do was change around my regs to the long hose etc. I could not imagine taking this prep class in a new rig and having quite the same comfort level. But I'd rather be introduced to it here, in preparation than in Fundies. Hence the need for the classes. What I did notice is that all of us were at different levels with our diving. Some of us had great buoyancy skill, some not so good. Some were very relaxed in the water, some very nervous. When it came time to work on skills with a buddy it was clearly evident, having 2 divers with varying levels of skill can affect the team. Air sharing mid-water was extremely difficult if one buddy was blowing up to the surface. But this is to be expected in a class with divers at various levels from AOW (5-15 dives) to divers like me with 150-300 dives. What I'm trying to say is that you've probably got many divers coming into Fundies with different expectations. You've got newer divers (or new to DIR) coming in, and, because of lack of basic skill, may find it impossible to glean what they thought they would out of the class. Then you've got divers with more skill that maybe didn't get buddied up properly and couldn't pull off the teamwork aspect? Just some thoughts as I've not taken Fundies yet, just observation from the outside. But rest assured I will take "buoyancy2" so I can be better prepped. I'm told I'll get much more out of it if I do. So far I've only seen things that tell me this is true. I think there is a real need for these "prep" classes. In fact make a pass or fail at this level before moving into Fundies?

 

[Charlie99]

I think this is a problem with Fundies. From all of the reports I've read, why take the class if you're not ready? As an introduction to skills you've never attempted?

It's that balance between doing it too early vs. having to unlearn bad habits. Also the balance between getting the most out of the class vs. continuing to dive without having learned key skills.

Not all that different than the oft repeated questions of "When should I take AOW course?" and "When should I take Rescue course?".