I need your help! Survey on women/gender in diving.

[uncfnp]

@Storker . There is a difference between sexism and politeness. As with too many other PC issues, the pendulum tends to overcorrect. Asking another if help is needed is not sexism, male or female. Assuming simply because of their sex help is required, that would be sexism.

Alternate question. Would it be sexism if I saw you struggling and I offered to help?

 

[uncfnp]

And to the reaction of men when our answer is "I prefer to do it myself," please understand that we mean nothing bad toward you for the offer, at least not in my experience, but rather it is a need within ourselves to be self sufficient. I think in this we are no different then men.

 

[Storker]

Would it be sexism if I saw you struggling and I offered to help?

Not IMHO. But I do realize that some women - if having been subjected to condescending sexism in the past - might interpret my honest offer as sexist. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but I have to accept that that kind of reaction might happen.

I would prefer that the gals I dive with didn't have such sore toes, though. And (AFAIK) most of them don't.

 

[dreamdive]

Alright, here is a behaviour trade that I observe consistently:

A couple decides to learn how to dive (CCR). They are both at the beginning of the learning curve. He knows just as much (or little) as she but invariable will be the one trying to teach her how to.......put on gear, explain concepts (that he only learned himself a second ago...) etc. I NEVER have seen this in reverse!

When I introduced my former partner to CCR (I have been diving CCR for a few years already), I made it a point of removing myself from his instructions. It was the instructor's job and not mine! So why are men overbearing? I might even call it arrogant! The hubby literally just learned a concept and feels compelled to put himself between his wife and the instructor and take over instruction! WOW - Best if couples not learn together.

What else does this behaviour foster? It fosters dependence and thus the woman is never completely comfortable dealing with her gear or diving without her husband. Meanwhile, the husband has no problem diving with other guys. It makes her feel less competent dealing with things as HE is always in charge. How many women fix their husband's CCR unit when there is an issue? I bet only the minority.

I can go on and on with is but .... I actually have a job and need to go to work now.

This will certainly offend some of you guys (maybe even gals) but I am saying it as I, as a woman, see it. As a female tech diver, I made it a point a long time ago that "if I cant carry my gear, I don't dive it" - that was on doubles. Now it goes, "unless I can manage my gear, I won't dive it".

I am independent and chances are that I can assist a man with his gear better than some. We women need to change our attitudes and insist to do things ourselves so that we are independent and actually become better dive buddies to our male dive buddies. We need to be allowed to learn at our pace and we need to struggle in order to learn - just like men do. It is very gallant of men to offer assistance, but by doing so, we are deprived of the opportunity to learn and master a skill.

From my PERSONAL observation, women appear always a little less comfortable and confident with their gear and rely on their male partner a lot. There are exceptions ( I am one).

 

[Freewillow]

Interesting viewpoint dreamdive, that I agree with for a very large part.

Just two remarks: the women's "gaussian distribution of caracteristics" overlaps quite a bit with the curve for men. So one can only judge in terms of "statistically" significant differences in behavior. That does not say that any particular "man" cannot be 10 times more "girly" than a specific woman for a particular behavior.

I am not doing CCR, but have gone through some light tech training with my spouse. I can relate to what you are saying about learning with your spouse. I am the one that grabs "technical" stuff faster and try to help my wife with it . But on the other hand she is the one that has an attention to details and security. So she is much much better than I am and contributes A LOT during "gear matching" deco dive planning steps and the dive itself.

I ALWAYS feel safer when I am diving with my spouse. I can say that because I have to dive with others since she wants to restrict her dive vacations to 2 dives max/day.

Is there someting wrong with me, or my couple, Doctor?

 

[FinnMom]

What Dreamdive notes about overbearing men "The hubby literally just learned a concept and feels compelled to put himself between his wife and the instructor and take over instruction! WOW - Best if couples not learn together."
does happen a lot. Indeed it is not the gold standard, but "a lot" is probably fair.
Sorry guys, but I suspect if you had equal reason to notice it, you would see it as often as we do.

On the other hand, as little sister to 5 guys and a wife of several decades, I've noticed that men often see any opportunity to help or support in these manly ways as one of their rare opportunities to show that they care about you and they want to contribute something when they see something they can do (or think they can do). So when dealing with a guy we know and care about to any degree, we should try to dial back the annoyance and consider that maybe he is just trying to contribute, honestly trying to please you. Communicate! Think and find the right words (can be stock phrases) to be nice but nonetheless clear, even firm. I know the frustration, but if you act nasty no one will pay attention to your message and in the long run you set yourself up for a vastly greater dose of frustration.