I narrowed down and got confused...

[SangP]

Having used n own regs from Scubapro, Apeks, Aqualungs, Mares, dive rite, Poseidon, Sherwood etc the conclusion is...

1. Get something that's easy to service have lots of parts wherever you are at or going to.
2. Get something that breaths comfortably. Couldn't stand the way a Poseidon or Mares breath.
3. Get something that works best in your environment... cold, warm etc.
4. Preferably get something that's been there done that.
5. Finally get something that's going to be around for the foreseeable future.

Currently using Apeks XTX100 and Aqualung Legends lx cus they are bullet proof, can be serviced easily by almost anyone n parts are never an issue... AND BREATH SO EASY!!!

Hogs are based on the Apeks DST range n are about as bullet proof as you can get n are cheap to boot!

Either way, these would fit your needs nicely.

1. Apeks DS4/XTX50/XTX50
2. Aqualung Legend LX (needs to be detuned for cold water dives)
3. Scubapro MK17/G250
4. Hogs D1 with cold water kit.

SangP

 

[randytay]

BTW, is the HOG D1 nitrox compatible? I cannot find the info...

 

[NC Wreck Diver]

LOL! You don't see the irony of chastising everyone else for what you see as anectdotal evidence, one sentence after you quote your own? What's next, everyone should go back to diving the Navy tables?

Anyone who knows me personally might remember that I actually went through this a handful of years ago as a newish diver with a newish dive buddy. We were doing a cold-water lake dive and right as he got to depth his Scubapro piston first stage froze up and freeflowed like crazy. What stuck will me (and still does to this day) is how massive the bubble storm was and how loud and chaotic it all was underwater. Also shocking to me was how fast it emptied his tank, just in the time it took to get him on my reg and for me to get his valve shut off he was down to a few hundred psi.

Was it ca to a mistake on his part? Probably, shorter bursts into the BC are better than one long burst. I don't think either of us knew that on that morning. And I didn't react nearly as fast as I should; possibly because my OW training taught me I had plenty of time, which wasn't the case. And, of course, neither of us were Navy divers.

BTW, he eventually traded his piston first stage for a MK17, but his wife's nerves can't take the thought of him diving since that morning, so he's effectively given it up. And I've given up cold water diving for warm tropic waters.

Long story short, your assumption that piston first stages are always safe in cold water is complete crap. Freeflows from frozen first stages happen, and if you are new to diving and don't have your head about you it could get ugly, fast. Sorry, if that upsets people who are big fans of of the Scubapro piston regs. Esp. when the MK17 really is a better alternative.

Well, It doesn't bother me one bit. You are entitled to your opinion on this forum, but it seems like you are on the rant..............I dive a cold quarry in April, mid 30's F. I think your friend ran his BC for an overextended amount of time (like you mentioned), and created his own problem. I feel bad that he gave up even after he bought the MK17. And now you dive only tropics (which is cool), but you are giving up a lot of good diving, that may be closer to your home.

With that situation, all you needed to do was vent the BC until you disconnected the power inflator, shut the rig off, and come up on your pony (which should be standard equipment in diving water that cold). Sounds like some panic was factored into the mix (which is understandable with newer divers - it can happen to ANYONE). I hope you enjoy the tropics, it's a fun place to go. Safe diving to you and your group.

 

[SangP]

BTW, is the HOG D1 nitrox compatible? I cannot find the info...

Almost any reg from the factory is EAN 40% ready. Any more and you need to O2 clean it. Furthermore there are certain metals that aren't suitable for EAN 50% or higher, Ti for example.

You can do a search for what regs are suitable for high O2 usage.

SangP

 

[Jim Lapenta]

All HOG regs were designed with tech divers in mind, but just so NO ONE gets confused they can be used very well for recreational dives, and are 100% O2 clean out of the box. There is a great deal of confusion regarding so called tech equipment. Some of this is not only permitted but wncouraged by shop owners who do not know how to use the stuff, are not familiar with it, and most likely do not carry it. Therefore anything with tech attached to it in their minds will kill you, is not necessary, or too complicated for the average recreational diver. As for service even if you do not want to work on your own stuff any competent tech could make a fix if they had the parts. With HOG you can be sure they do. A rebuild kit could be part of your save a dive kit since you can buy it yourself and are not handcuffed by manufacturer BS.

I am also not made of money. I could therefore see no reason to spend an arm and leg on a reg that IS NO BETTER than one half the price or less. I am at this point fairly sensitive to reg performance. That is after 300 plus dives, some tech dives in that, and a few hundred hours in the pool using dozens of different regs in that time. A new diver though would be highly unlikely to be able to tell the difference between a well tuned Sherwood Brut and an SR1 or any SP high end reg.

The OP also stated that his instructor told him his Alpha 8 was set up to breathe best at 20-40 ft? What kind of BS is that?! I use an Alpha 7 and have had it down to 120 feet and in 45 degree water and with the first stage it has (DX4 w envirokit) it breathes as well as my GT3 and Delta3. Especially at the surface. Not getting enough air in an entry from shore is a sign that the person who is doing the maintenance on those regs does not know what they are doing or the regs have not been serviced. Either way the instructor is full of it.

 

[John_B]

And now you dive only tropics (which is cool), but you are giving up a lot of good diving, that may be closer to your home.

By "no cold water" I mean no 40°F or colder dives. I still do an annual trip to Catalina.

 

[randytay]

The OP also stated that his instructor told him his Alpha 8 was set up to breathe best at 20-40 ft? What kind of BS is that?! I use an Alpha 7 and have had it down to 120 feet and in 45 degree water and with the first stage it has (DX4 w envirokit) it breathes as well as my GT3 and Delta3. Especially at the surface. Not getting enough air in an entry from shore is a sign that the person who is doing the maintenance on those regs does not know what they are doing or the regs have not been serviced. Either way the instructor is full of it.

To be fair, it was partially due to my own anxiety that could have contributed to me not able to breathe well.

 

[SangP]

Despite what the instructor said, I know a lot of rental regs are tuned down so as not to free flow and therefore, are harder to breath from.

Being anxious just makes you breath harder n faster n if you have a smooth breathing reg it helps reduce your anxiety.

SangP

 

[Belce]

1.5.13
CAT I
Active
REGULATOR, GENERAL
SERVICE, COMMERCIAL
SCUBAPRO
Name : Rene' Dupre
Phone : 954.818.1965
S600/MK25 AUTHORIZED TO 190 FSW AND 38 DEGREES
FAHRENHEIT WATER AND WARMER. S600 IS
THE 2ND STAGE. MK25 IS THE FIRST STAGE.
Updated on: 2/2/2010 8:15:00 AM

http://www.supsalv.org/pdf/ANUView.pdf

The above is from the current US Navy Authorized for Use List. You can find it by doing a search for Mk25. The fact that the Mk17 does not appear here in no way implies that it can not pass the tests that are required, same with the G250 2nd stage.

It is not anectdotal if I report my own first hand observations and I am not new to diving. Diving equipment can only be considered safe when used within its tested limits and I have not recommended that anyone dive outside of those limits, let alone beyond their experience and training.

Navy divers and tables... I am not one of those types of divers and their tables are designed to be used for dives that have required decompression and not really suitable for use for recreational diving that should plan to avoid required decompression. I normally use my computer to track my no deco time and to plan repetitive dives, but if I use tables then its tables suitable for my type of diving.

 

[halocline]

That navy doc is a good example of some of the confusion that exists about cold water use. It specifically approves the use of the MK25/S600 in deep cold water. Further, many, many deep cold water dives have been made on this regulator with success.

Yet, the MK25/S600 is probably the least freeze resistant SP reg currently on the market, based both on lots of anecdotal reports from multiple divers and on knowledge of its general design features. The MK17/G250V has been freeze-tested (just not by the navy, apparently) and was designed specifically to be more freeze-resistant than the MK25/S600.

If I were looking for a cold water reg, I'd buy the MK17 and use an old balanced/adjustable (essentially a G250 in a metal case). However, if I owned a MK25/S600 and was given a chance to go on a cold water dive, I wouldn't worry too much about the reg. I just wouldn't choose one if I were a regular cold water diver.

One of the most trusted regulator gurus on SB, DA Aquamaster, has frequently posted about the cold water reliability of the MK17, and his preference for it over the MK25 in cold water. However, I know for a fact that he used to live in an extremely cold climate and did many, many very cold deep dives with a MK25, no problems.